Hawk Talk

[pete]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

I was talking about J.A.P. engines the other day. Originally, all motorcycle engines had drip feed total loss oiling. Usually with a hand pump to give it a little more oil while hill climbing. About one pump every thirty seconds on a steep hill. The good feature of this system is that the engine always got fresh oil. The bad feature was that the engine didn't get enough oil to assist in cooling it. So, it limited horsepower. More horsepower means more heat. The oil was usually not fed to the bearings, it was squirted into the crank case, where the crankshaft whirled it into an oily fog, somewhat like a two stroke does. So, the J.A.P. engine for many years was a total loss engine, and, in fact, you can still buy an "80 Bore" J.A.P. engine new that is total loss oiling. For racing only, of course. But, the independent manufacturers of motor cycles that didn't make their own engines started to pressure JAP to provide an engine that had a dry sump system. So the 500cc and 350cc JAP's got a sort of hybred oiling system. It had pressure feed to the big end, and that was it. They had a v cast into the crank case walls so that oil spraying off of the crankpin onto the crank case walls, to run down to the v's and the vee's had a hole at the foot, and this allowed oil to drip on the main bearings. There was a hole cast in to the timing side case to allow oil mist to get to the cams and timing gears, which then ran down to a trench in the bottom of the timing case, where the cams would dip, picking up oil. But how to get the oil to the overhead valves and rockers? Crank case pumping. Yes, that's how they did it, by oil mist carried up by crank case pressure, and exhausted at the head through a ball valve which only let the air out. Usually a hose was attached to this valve to let the excess oil drip in the chains. While it sounds crazy, it worked....ARH

They still do to this day.... GM speedway motors use crank case pulese to move the oil.
the motor has a oil chamber on the side that the end of the crank shaft comes into the crank end is under oil as the piston goes up it sucks oil down the crank into the big end , as the piston comes back down the oil in the bottom of the crank case is pushed though a butterfly valve in the bottom of the crank case & back into the oil chamber...
The bottom of the cam chain is running in the chamber under oil & it takes the oil up
to the head and flicks it off at the top to oil the cam & valves... then it runs back down the cam chain tunnel to the oil chamber....

Weslake / Jawa / Godden speedway motors were/are a totol loss oil system they used the oil from a small tank in the frame the after it had been though the motor it was spat out though a butterfly valve onto the track...


..

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by pete

They still do to this day.... GM speedway motors use crank case pulese to move the oil.
the motor has a oil chamber on the side that the end of the crank shaft comes into the crank end is under oil as the piston goes up it sucks oil down the crank into the big end , as the piston comes back down the oil in the bottom of the crank case is pushed though a butterfly valve in the bottom of the crank case & back into the oil chamber...
The bottom of the cam chain is running in the chamber under oil & it takes the oil up
to the head and flicks it off at the top to oil the cam & valves... then it runs back down the cam chain tunnel to the oil chamber....

Weslake / Jawa / Godden speedway motors were/are a totol loss oil system they used the oil from a small tank in the frame the after it had been though the motor it was spat out though a butterfly valve onto the track...


..

I know that the JAP 80 bore speedway and grass track engine had what we call reed valves (4 of them) at the lowest point of the engine to blow the used oil out onto the track. JAP's used a Pilgrim single pump with regulator oilfeed and a sight glass. I think what we call a reed valve is also called a butterfly valve...ARH

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Phelon & Moore developed an engine, and a frame, and a method of mounting the engine around 1910 that was truly unique. It was modified, over the years, but the basis of it survived until the 1960's. And, perhaps, the wierdest thing about the engine was the way it oiled. The engine started out as a side valve, or flathead. It was used as a stressed member of the frame. It had a steering head, and a top tube, and a seat tube, but that was pretty much it. The Engine and whatever passed for a gearbox and the plates that connected the two comprised the rest. So, the engine was the front tube, and at about the same angle as a front tube. What got to me was the oiling system. It used a pump on the feed side, but being a dry sump engine, the way it got the oil back into the tank was weird, strange, and unique. When you first see one, after digesting the fact that the engine was the front down tube, was a triangular aluminum tank in the front of the crank case. A large tank, about 3 3/8ths American quarts. It had a roller bearing big end. When the engine was running, the oil would squirt out of that bearing onto the walls of the crank case, lubricating the main bearings the same way the JAP engine did. Then it would run down to the bottom of the crank case, within a quarter inch of the flywheels. Now the crank case had a connecting window to the top of the oil tank. At the bottom of the window was a wier with a knife edge running .050 inch away from the flywheels, so that the oil on the flywheels was peeled off on the knife edge, and so flowed into the oil tank. Note that the oil tank was out front in the breeze, so it also was an oil cooler. Eventually, they even put fins on the oil tank, to cool a little more. I'm not sure if it was the first dry sump engine (every one else was running total loss, at that time) but if it wasn't the first, it was one of the first. It was such a good idea, it's a wonder no one else did it. P&M eventually named a model the Panther. Then it became the Panther, made by Phelan & Moore. Panther was well regarded as a sidecar puller, perhaps because of that cool oil tank. If from this article you decide that your garage will be forever lacking if it does not have one of these beasties, I must warn you to only buy the 500 or 600cc model. The 650 model is not as good, because in order to make a 650 out of the 600, they had to reduce the diameter of the flywheels, so they couldn't pump oil back to the tank as well, causing high oil consumption...ARH

[Ariel Red Hunter]

We have over 30 thousand viewers on Hawk Talk. I never imagined that such a thing was possible. Thanks from me to all of the viewers, and the contributors to this column, it's mighty nice to know that people actually read this stuff....Sincerely, ARH

[BlackBike]

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by BlackBike

Great picture. Shows all of the features I was talking about. See that big oil tank between the exhaust pipes? If you put up a pic of one made in the 1920's, you will see how little the engine and frame design changed.

[Azhule]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

We have over 30 thousand viewers

Just remember most of those "views" are from "Web-Bots" / "Search Engine(s)" / "Government" caching the website... I would say that maybe 1/4 of the views are real people

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Azhule

Just remember most of those "views" are from "Web-Bots" / "Search Engine(s)" / "Government" caching the website... I would say that maybe 1/4 of the views are real people

Well, you deflated my day. Only 7500 viewers at the most. What a downer!...ARH

[Ariel Red Hunter]

When I was a lot younger, I ran into a guy who had a 1920-something little four cylinder Bugatti. Ettore Bugatti's idea of a sports car was to put fenders and lights on a de-tuned Grand Prix car. He was trying to sell it to me for $2500, which should tell you 2 things. How long ago this occured, and how stupid I was not to buy it. Anyway, I got to drive it. And it was an experience. Everything in that car you could feel through your fingertips. So he's telling me about the clutch. It was a multi-plate job, running in oil. He told me it used a mixture of kerosene and lube oil. "If you put too much kerosene in the mix, the clutch will chatter, if you put in too much oil, it will slip." "And if you hold the clutch to the floor at a light, it will heat up the clutch plates and creep, and then it will be difficult to change gears." So what? Guess which little motorcycle uses a multi plate clutch, running in oil. That's right, the Hawk.
So, when you adjust your clutch, the first thing to do is to slacken up the cable adjuster at the handle bars, go down to the other end of the cable and wiggle it back and forth to make sure that the lever on the crank case has 1/8th of an inch free play. Then you go to the handlebars, and set the lever so it has 1/8 inch free play at the end of the lever....ARH

[goat67]

Originally Posted by Azhule

Just remember most of those "views" are from "Web-Bots" / "Search Engine(s)" / "Government" caching the website... I would say that maybe 1/4 of the views are real people

I would not be so sure about that a search engine will not count as a view.
Take a look at an old post if a search engine hits counted as views all posts would continue to have their view count go up, which is not the case.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by goat67

I would not be so sure about that a search engine will not count as a view.
Take a look at an old post if a search engine hits counted as views all posts would continue to have their view count go up, which is not the case.

I feel better already!...ARH

[Jarwolf]

Hello. I am currently attending College, and I only work about 4 hours a night, thus, I only make $24 a day, well at the moment it is $32, next semester it will be $24; so I don't really have much at all to spend. I am awaiting for my college loans to come through so I can get a dual sport bike with my overage check. However, I am wanting to know the best 250 cc out there, though I fully understand it my opinion however, I am looking for one that goes around 70mph 80 if I am lucky, but 70 will do. I will have about 1.5k the max I can spend. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

P.S: I was looking at purchasing this version. I will insert the link and let the pro's inform me on whether it is a good buy or not.
https://www.killermotorsports.com/rp...dirt-bike.html

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Jarwolf

Hello. I am currently attending College, and I only work about 4 hours a night, thus, I only make $24 a day, well at the moment it is $32, next semester it will be $24; so I don't really have much at all to spend. I am awaiting for my college loans to come through so I can get a dual sport bike with my overage check. However, I am wanting to know the best 250 cc out there, though I fully understand it my opinion however, I am looking for one that goes around 70mph 80 if I am lucky, but 70 will do. I will have about 1.5k the max I can spend. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

P.S: I was looking at purchasing this version. I will insert the link and let the pro's inform me on whether it is a good buy or not.
https://www.killermotorsports.com/rp...dirt-bike.html

Yes, the Hawk is a good bike, but it won't meet your speed expectations. It comes with gearing that limits it to 58 mph. After it is broken in, you can change the gearing (sprockets) to get up to at least 65, cruise at 60. I don't think it is a good Interstate bike. Works out fine on US and State highways, though....ARH

[Jarwolf]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Yes, the Hawk is a good bike, but it won't meet your speed expectations. It comes with gearing that limits it to 58 mph. After it is broken in, you can change the gearing (sprockets) to get up to at least 65, cruise at 60. I don't think it is a good Interstate bike. Works out fine on US and State highways, though....ARH

Sweet! Thanks so much! Also, What sprockets should i purchase? And for whichh tire?

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Jarwolf

Sweet! Thanks so much! Also, What sprockets should i purchase? And for whichh tire?

For which tire? I'm confused, what do you mean, which tire?...ARH