12-05-2010, 01:20 AM | #46 | |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 826
|
Quote:
I would check the stator remove the cover and look at it, it may be or have corroded? The CDI has to be energized, the battery should do that it builds a jolt and puts it out for that first crank. Then takes it off the stator for the subsequent sparks and it times them....if it had a different stroke it would not share timing with an engine that did not have the same stroke. The battery, the CDI and the plug all connection... need to be good and then it should start, then, the stator needs to be read it should be generating volts and if not and reads closed its bad. I agree in that a bad stator should not prevent a start, it would affect firing though while running. |
|
|
12-05-2010, 01:48 AM | #47 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 826
|
A wiring diagram would be my first request, then just trace it all out something is not doing its part… it could be the kill switch or any circuit for that matter could be a rectifier… I would check everything because one thing can often be associated with another thing. People find one thing and then get all excited and then find that one thing went because of another thing was not working correctly.
How many miles on it…..I doubt the carburetor was re-jetted if the muffler is stock…but if you assume the previous owner was not that smart anything is possible. Spud can you get documents on the bike…what exactly gets you the part dealer moniker? I always liked the GS250 but not the support of it….seems like every owner I came across online was just a kid that new nothing….so now that changes with the good doctor having one and you being able to support him…the bike now take the cult a step further, makes me think about picking up a V-Twin Storm, not really but who knows, they may be coming around for cheap soon and they are kind of interesting. We know those are a 249cc Yamaha. |
|
12-05-2010, 02:49 AM | #48 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
|
Quote:
Zonshen ZS250GS Engine Specifications: Bore 72.5mm, Stroke 55.7mm Yamaha TW200 Engine Specifications: Bore 67.0mm, Stroke 55.7mm Yamaha TT-R230 Engine Specifications: Bore 70.0mm, Stroke 58.0mm Therefore, it appears the ZS250GS is basically a Yamaha XT200/TW200 engine, with a larger bore. It seems Zongshen enlarged the cylinder bore 5.5mm in diameter to gain the extra 34cc engine displacement. Therefore, Zongshen is using a larger piston, and larger piston rings than the Yamaha motorcycles employing this engine block. Also, Zongshen enlarged the cylinder head, and relocated the exhaust port on the right side, instead of the left side. I have corrected my original post, in the event someone might read it, and not catch my mistake. Spud
__________________
Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
||
|
12-05-2010, 03:17 AM | #49 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
|
Quote:
Spud
__________________
Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
|
|
12-05-2010, 03:26 AM | #50 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
|
Quote:
Quote:
Spud
__________________
Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
||
|
12-05-2010, 03:35 AM | #51 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
|
Quote:
Spud
__________________
Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
|
|
12-05-2010, 04:03 AM | #52 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 25,054
|
Perhaps the Zongshen, ZS250GS CDI unit is different from my Zongshen, 200GY-2 CDI unit. :roll: I just found the following wiring diagram at ZongshenForum.com.
http://zongshenforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=89.0 I will gladly defer to those forum members more knowledgeable than I on this matter. Spud
__________________
Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894 |
|
12-05-2010, 09:00 AM | #53 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 826
|
The CDI capacitor stores energy then releases it, I could be wrong but the initial spark should be off the battery as power source and then the subsequent spark come of the generator as the power source? All the sparks come off the CDI but the source of the voltage for that may change, that being the first spark is generated from the battery and then subsequent voltage off the generator. I would say the starter relay is or has the circuit that manages that flow. There is no power supply from the battery to the generator is there? The generator is the supply to the battery and only when running, it should start with a bad stator but simply not maintain the battery charge and also not provide enough to energize the CDI for higher RPM sparks, as the rpm increase so does the rate the CDI energizes and discharges. If the stator is bad then it will not happen. It is also possible the a bad stator would prevent starting if it has a circuit that is required that is not longer functioning. I am not sure….I would have to have a manual, then follow it, then know for sure.
|
|
12-05-2010, 11:22 AM | #54 |
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: orbital platform
Posts: 741
|
At the CDI it would appear: (unplugging CDI and checking at connector bike side)
With a 12V test light: Green is -12V Black/yellow fires the coil, and feeds the tach (check it is not grounded once you temporarily disconnect the coil) Black/red is +12V (with the key on) Ohm meter: Blue/yellow, green/white: (pick up coil) check for continuity with ohm meter, guess? 700+ ohms, cranking, another guess .8 volts ac You need a battery to start this! |
|
12-05-2010, 01:49 PM | #55 |
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 588
|
Doc,
Good score for $200, even if it gives you fits. Hope you can get it running. No new suggestions, eveybody has hit what I would try. Bill R |
|
12-05-2010, 02:43 PM | #56 |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southeastern Washington desert
Posts: 14,761
|
Thank you Spud, I did see that auction. He does not have the parts I need like the clutch lever, windshield, coil and CDI.
My plan for today is to hook it up to a car battery with large gauge jumper cables to see if the 14 gauge wire I have now (to hook it to another motorcycle battery) is too restrictive and that's the reason for the weak spark, i.e. low voltage.
__________________
Happy to serve. |
|
12-05-2010, 04:22 PM | #57 |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southeastern Washington desert
Posts: 14,761
|
No joy on the car battery and jumper cables. The problem is not inadequate voltage.
__________________
Happy to serve. |
|
12-05-2010, 04:44 PM | #58 |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sardis, BC, Canada
Posts: 25,977
|
Do you have a coil that you can try?
__________________
Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer |
|
12-05-2010, 06:17 PM | #59 |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southeastern Washington desert
Posts: 14,761
|
I have the XR's coil.
I just don't know. I've never seen a coil fail, but I would think if a CDI went out it would not spark at all. I thought, on a battery equipped bike, the battery energizes the ignition coil not the stator. The stator charges the battery. If I'm right, and I don't know, then a bad stator would not cause my issue and that leaves me with the CDI and the coil. I think I'll have Spud get me a CDI and coil. I will then find out which of the two new parts, if either, or both fix my problem. I don't like diagnosing by replacement but I don't see another way at this point. I might ask my frined Andy the mechanic but I don't like bothering him with this stuff. On the other hand he asks me medical stuff, and that's what friends are for...
__________________
Happy to serve. |
|
12-05-2010, 06:19 PM | #60 |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southeastern Washington desert
Posts: 14,761
|
Spud said:
I don't wish to be argumentative, but I must disagree. My Zongshen 200GY-2 employs an AC-CDI unit, and this ZS250GS CDI unit appears to be similar. If the stator goes bad, the Zongshen engine will not start. The Zongshen, AC-CDI unit does not receive any input from the battery; it receives all its input from the stator. The battery does not charge the capacitor in the Zongshen CDI unit. If the stator does not deliver sufficient voltage to the AC-CDI unit, the AC-CDI unit cannot send sufficient voltage to the ignition coil If that's the case my theroy this is not the stator may be wrong. I wonder if I should order a gasket and a stator too. Do I need a special puller, or does it simply screw into the cover? Is it a plug and play deal?
__________________
Happy to serve. |
|
|
|
|
|