Armed Forces Alarmed at the Numbers of Motorcycle Deaths

[tigertamer]

Originally Posted by SpeedSouth

That alone is enough reason to NOT follow this line of thinking, IMO.

I concur :!:

I concur :roll:

I concur :arrow:

...With SpeedSouth 8)

Now back to the topic as started...

TT

[VinceDrake]

WEeeellllllll...

Since I am here anyways, I might as well throw in a a few imflammatory comments, right?

First and foremost, it is my Official, Documented opinion that restriction on speed, horsepower output, noise levels are not cool.

I like to own things, and specifically I like to own shiny, rediculously fast things. I bust my sphincter daily to make money to own things, and I don't see where it's anybody's business to tell me that I have to own a slow, sluggish, dull Lada Zhiguli, or Skoda 120. Especially not the government. Any time they get there hands on something I like, they ruin it completely, and/or tax the crap out of it-- Therefore I want them to have nothing to do with what I drive, or what I own.

Thirdly, I don't think anyone in a postion of authority has any clue about me, my family, or what we/I need. Legislators can't tell me what size shirt I wear, why would they be able to tell me what I need in a car/Motorcycle/Truck/Wife?

Next-- Remember all those high-tech soviet cars? Weren't they lovely? That's what you get when you let the government tell you what you want. A shiny new Trabant P601LX! Yay! 26hp! No Air! No Nothing! Already North American cars and bikes are a joke in the world market. A steam-powered anachronism better off in a museum. Do we really want to make it worse with even more over-regulation and government "intervention?"

At one point in time, North America was *the* world leader in Personal Transportation technology, and bloody well should be again! We have the people, the power, the technology, and the ability, we just lack the will. I keep telling ANyone who will listen, When we stop building crap, people will buy it. Who the heck wants to buy a 65mph, eco-friendly, Over-priced gutless wonder? No Sex appeal there. If there was, every vehicle on the road would be a Prius.

Finally I don't want to open the door to more gov't regulation in my life. First they tell me how fast a motorcycle I'm Allowed to own, next they'll be telling me how Big my wife's "lungs" are allowed to be! Just think! It would wipe out the sex-trade, porn and related scams would be pointless, rape and Related Sex-crimes would die out overnight! Yup, we should all drive 65mph cars, and all look alike, Everyone can look like either Lyle Lovitt or Madelaine Albright! The world would be just bloody perfect then, wouldn't it?

What we seem to have forgotten as a society is that with great freedom come great responsibility. We have the freedom to buy a 250km/h hyper-bike, but not the responsibility to drive like a grown up, and when the obvious happens we want to drop the dime on the manufacturer. The manufacturer did not build the bike to kill people, or to cause traffic mayhem, they built it because it sells. There was no malice aforethough, therefore to culpability.

--Vince

[/rant]

[elroyjetsn]

Originally Posted by VinceDrake

What we seem to have forgotten as a society is that with great freedom come great responsibility. --Vince
[/rant]

Yes, and those that FORGET and exceed the speed limits and such may make it necessary to enforce those laws in a WAYS that keeps THEM and the rest of us safe on the roads. :roll:

Sounds like either we learn them outlaws to respect the existing rules of the road, or use plan B. (take away their overpowered toys) :x

Besides, Freedom is never selfish. :wink:

[elroyjetsn]

Yes, motorcycle manufactures make machines that will sell. Sadly, right now the market is largely full of wannabe racers and mid-life dudes. So, the shops are all full of streetized track bikes and heavy weight cruzers.

Ever notice how many normal street bikes there are/aren't. Often none.

In the US most bikes are toys, or luxurys. Walking around at one major MC gathering i noticed almost all the odometers read under 20k miles. Even on 20yearold bikes. (Goldwings, the notable exception)

If you wanna bike for basic transportation, it's likely a DS or nothing. They even advertise the DS's as commuters!

[Jim]

What do you consider a normal street bike?

[VinceDrake]

Originally Posted by elroyjetsn

Yes, and those that FORGET and exceed the speed limits and such may make it necessary to enforce those laws in a WAYS that keeps THEM and the rest of us safe on the roads. :roll:

Sounds like either we learn them outlaws to respect the existing rules of the road, or use plan B. (take away their overpowered toys) :x

Besides, Freedom is never selfish. :wink:

While I agree some that those who "forget" need some re-Neducation-- punishing society as a whole by taking away everyone's machinery is counter productive.

Punishing the machine is not effective. It only lowers the quality of life for the rest of us. The errant drivers need to be learned, possibly forcefully. How about a 10 pound iron "boot" that goes on the offending driver's throttle hand, rendering him/her unable to operate a motorcycle?

Or maybe bolt-on "deely boppers" (You know those googly-eye thingys people put on their heads at holloween and stuff?) Making the offending operator unable to wear a brain bucket, and a huge rolling target for cruising traffic police?

Or maybe a built-in Auto Shut Down device that the Police could activate remotely, instead of chasing offenders down with 5000lb Crown Vics at 100mph on public streets?

I just don't honestly think that banning or outlawing certain kinds of machinery is really going to help anything. People who don't give a crap about the rest of society won't give a crap whether they're riding a sportbike, or a light grey 4 door 4 cylendar Automatic Taurus.

--Vince

[elroyjetsn]

Originally Posted by Jim

What do you consider a normal street bike?

Hmm, under 500lbs, upright riding position, 250-600cc.

Stuff BMW likes to make.

[elroyjetsn]

Vince,

No need to ban them. Just, make them non-street legal. Track use only.

They can play all they want where it's appropriate. :wink:

[VinceDrake]

Mr. Jetsn, I think I am going to have to respectfully agree to disagree with you sir. While your argument is valid, and does have merit, I personally cannot accept it. (It would take away some of my toys!)

However, I would agree with your definition of Normal Streetbike. I would also say it's sad how few bikes there are currently available that conform to that Spec.

--Vince

[Jim]

I disagree with your definition. What are you basing your definition of normal on, normal to where? I think you need to consider what you feel is normal may not be the general consensus.

The most fitting definition from the dictionary on normal is the following:

according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b: conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern

I think you are mixing up actual normal and your idea of what people should be riding. I think the argument here is people should have the FREEDOM to choose what they ride.

I choose to ride an 805cc cruiser weighing 516lb's, does this some how make me a criminal? Everyone has different needs and expectations from what they ride, and that I believe has a large part to do with the fact we aren't all riding the same thing.

[warrior91]

I think we just banned every harley produced then...upright riding position or not...They are hardly track machines...so where do they go...Piled in the back of a truck and run over with Chinese Crawlers and backhoes???Welcome to communist china,I mean USA.
:roll:

[Willys]

Hmmm...???

OK...how bout...?

You get caught speeding or driving/riding wrecklessly....your ride gets crushed period! Video tape evidence only with speed posted on it is all that is needed to convict!

Hmmm...??? Wonder how many vehicles you will part with before you get the message? That's if you can afford to ins. the next one at all!!

Maybe...after the first offence they all are forced to ride China Bikes for a year!! Maybe that embarrassment will do it?? lol


As for normal everyday bike to ride....I ride a KLR650 as a daily rider. Upright seating position, not too quick by anyone's standards, econamical, cheap, easy to repair, and to top it off fun! And i don't ride it off road either! It's an adventure tourer for me, at least that's what I tell myself! lol

[elroyjetsn]

Sorry fellas, there was actually 2 different discussions, i think. One was about the market being skewed torward racers and heavyweights. I was just saying something about how bikes are marketed. They are marketed towards pleasure riders, not so much commuters. Very few "commuter" type bikes are being offered.

The other discussion was about whether bikes designed primarily for the track "crotch rockets" should be street legal. If those that play with them as if the public roads were a race track, should face confiscation. That sort of thing.

Heavyweights are completely cool! Just wish they would offer more lightweight street bikes. I should have said "commuter bike instead of normal street bike". :oops:

[elroyjetsn]

Originally Posted by Willys

Hmmm...???

OK...how bout...?

You get caught speeding or driving/riding wrecklessly....your ride gets crushed period! Video tape evidence only with speed posted on it is all that is needed to convict!

Hmmm...??? Wonder how many vehicles you will part with before you get the message? That's if you can afford to ins. the next one at all!!

Maybe...after the first offence they all are forced to ride China Bikes for a year!! Maybe that embarrassment will do it?? lol




As for normal everyday bike to ride....I ride a KLR650 as a daily rider. Upright seating position, not too quick by anyone's standards, econamical, cheap, easy to repair, and to top it off fun! And i don't ride it off road either! It's an adventure tourer for me, at least that's what I tell myself! lol

Agreed, actually, i was thinking all 600cc bikes including the many great 650 DS's. Bikes much bigger than that tend to be clumsy in town but are great on the freeways. (my next commuter may end up being a 650DS)

[Jim]

I don't think everyone needs to use their bike as a commuter vehicle, however, once the weather warms up that will be the task assigned to my Lifan.

My cruiser is for longer distance trips, vacations, etc... It likely will be used for commuting too, but not as much as the Lifan.
It is most definitely not clumsy.

I don't know what models are available in the USA, but there is quite a few "small displacement" bikes up here... CBR 125r, Marauder 250, Ninja 250, Virago 250, as well as all the dual sports, and middle weight (500-750cc) cruisers). There are a ton of options up here to meet everyones different needs, I would assume that most of these are available south of the border (with the exception of the cbr 125r).