Hawk Talk

[Megadan]

To add to that, check for vertical runout as well as horizontal. My rear wheel was perfect, but my front wheel needed truing. Tape or zip tie a Pencil to the fork or swing arm with the point about 1/4" away from the rim (closer is better for seeing if there is any movement) so that it stays in place and spin the wheel with it off the ground and see if the wheel moves toward and away from said pencil. For vertical, I usually put the pointed end of the pencil in line with the inside ridge of the rim so I can see if it moves vertically up and down as well.

I have laced and trued numerous wheels, so for me I can make it sound like no big deal. realistically it isn't that hard, but it can be tedious your first time around. Rocky Mountain ATV has a really good video on how to do it, and it is a good skill to have.

One thing you don't really need is a wheel stand. I have one, but I have also done many wheels still on the bike, and in fact I did my Hawks front wheel without ever removing it. I just removed the front brake caliper and hung it out of the way.

In this video, you can ignore the first step where they tighten all of the spokes. your wheel already has this done. Skip ahead to the 2 minute mark.

[Megadan]

I should also note, you don't NEED the spoke torque wrench. Ariel Red Hunter's description above is perfect. I have one, but that's because I am lazy lol.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Thanks, Megadan. I wrote that for Joe Blow, who is apt to blow a hunnert bucks on a fancy spoke torque wrench, and then search high and low for torque figures. And pick the highest number, because more is always better, right? It is pretty hard to over tighten spokes with a 3 inch wrench, unless he puts a "cheater" on it....ARH

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Thanks, Megadan. I wrote that for Joe Blow, who is apt to blow a hunnert bucks on a fancy spoke torque wrench, and then search high and low for torque figures. And pick the highest number, because more is always better, right? It is pretty hard to over tighten spokes with a 3 inch wrench, unless he puts a "cheater" on it....ARH

It's not that hard to overtighten a spoke, even with a nubby little spoke wrench. Most spokes only need to be tightnened to around 60-ish inch pounds (usually between 45-70. but I have seen upwards of 90 before). If they are just using their wrist strength, then yes I agree completely, it is pretty hard to get it super high. Pushing with your whole arm or your body, not at all.

Let's take a look at that 3 inch spoke wrench. Let's say an average dude can apply 50lbs of pushing force with their arm - think bench press style push. Take that 3 inch lever, put all of that force on the end. 150 inch pounds. 2 to 3 times what a typical spoke requires to be properly tightened. Your average spoke wrench is usually a bit longer than 3 inches. Mine is roughly 5 inches long. That is one reason why almost all guides to tightening spokes state a quarter of a turn at a time. Hopefully it will make somebody stop and think that "gosh this is kind of hard to tighten" and assume they shouldn't bench press their spoke wrench...but lots of people also think "tighter is better!" I have replaced a LOT of broken spokes, and those are usually caused by being too tight.

That is why I said your method is just about perfect for somebody that doesn't want to spend almost 100 bucks on said tool. That is also why I said, it is not necessary.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Megadan

It's not that hard to overtighten a spoke, even with a nubby little spoke wrench. Most spokes only need to be tightnened to around 60-ish inch pounds (usually between 45-70. but I have seen upwards of 90 before). If they are just using their wrist strength, then yes I agree completely, it is pretty hard to get it super high. Pushing with your whole arm or your body, not at all.

Let's take a look at that 3 inch spoke wrench. Let's say an average dude can apply 50lbs of pushing force with their arm - think bench press style push. Take that 3 inch lever, put all of that force on the end. 150 inch pounds. 2 to 3 times what a typical spoke requires to be properly tightened. Your average spoke wrench is usually a bit longer than 3 inches. Mine is roughly 5 inches long. That is one reason why almost all guides to tightening spokes state a quarter of a turn at a time. Hopefully it will make somebody stop and think that "gosh this is kind of hard to tighten" and assume they shouldn't bench press their spoke wrench...but lots of people also think "tighter is better!" I have replaced a LOT of broken spokes, and those are usually caused by being too tight.

That is why I said your method is just about perfect for somebody that doesn't want to spend almost 100 bucks on said tool. That is also why I said, it is not necessary.

Good points. I didn't think I would have to explain how to use the wrench, but your points are well taken. I use the short wrench AND ONLY USE MY INDEX FINGER to power the wrench by pulling....ARH

[BlackBike]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Good points. I didn't think I would have to explain how to use the wrench, but your points are well taken. I use the short wrench AND ONLY USE MY INDEX FINGER to power the wrench by pulling....ARH

Exactly!

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Good points. I didn't think I would have to explain how to use the wrench, but your points are well taken. I use the short wrench AND ONLY USE MY INDEX FINGER to power the wrench by pulling....ARH

Some of the most asked questions in the motorcycle world is how to tighten spokes and true a wheel. It's not really a patter of having to tell people how to use a wrench than it is explaining to them that it doesn't take gorilla strength to tighten them. I simply wanted to add to what you said for those Joe Blows out there that maybe want to learn a bit more. I always try to keep in mind that guys like you and I know all of the subtle details to this and it comes automatically to us. First timers tend to be intimidated by all of the little details that simply come as second nature to us, or they end up doing more harm than good simply out of ignorance.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Some of the most asked questions in the motorcycle world is how to tighten spokes and true a wheel. It's not really a patter of having to tell people how to use a wrench than it is explaining to them that it doesn't take gorilla strength to tighten them. I simply wanted to add to what you said for those Joe Blows out there that maybe want to learn a bit more. I always try to keep in mind that guys like you and I know all of the subtle details to this and it comes automatically to us. First timers tend to be intimidated by all of the little details that simply come as second nature to us, or they end up doing more harm than good simply out of ignorance.

Yes, you are right. I try to simplify as much as I can for people whose previous experience was the family riding mower. Occasionally I slip up. Thanks for proof reading my stuff. Believe it or not, I appreciate it...ARH

[Ariel Red Hunter]

I sure hope you guys bought marine grease for your bike. Personally, I've always gone to the the Evinrude Outbard Motor shop for my grease, because I know salt water doesn't effect it. Do the steering head bearings, both axles and other places that should have Zerks, but don't. The swingarm bolt should be as greasy as you can get it, and you should double nut it on the nut end of the bolt. Or get a Nyloc nut...ARH

[Ariel Red Hunter]

I've been thinking I've been re-miss in chain mainainence. The chain that comes on the bike has a bad reputation, but is that all poor quality design or metalurgy, or is it lousy lubrication. I don't know, but if I owned one of these little beasties, I would look after lubrication, because I have no control of the design/metalurgy. I would remove the chain as soon as possible, after purchase, and wash it thoroughly in kerosene. Then hang it up and let it dry. After it is dry, put some wax, I've always used canning wax for this, in a can or an old pan, and warm it up to liquid state. Then put the chain in the liquid wax, and leave it there for a couple of hours at a heat that just keeps the wax liquid. I've always done the heating in a double boiler, but that seems to be a skill no one uses anymore. You can even add colloidal graphite to the soup, if you are so inclined. Then I took a wire coat hanger and pulled the chain out of the soup, turned off the heat, and let the soup that is still on the chain run back into the pan or can. When it cools off, put it back on the bike. With any luck, the chain will last the rest of the season....ARH

[Ariel Red Hunter]

It would appear that there are three carburetor choices for the China bikes most people around here own. Sheng Wei, Keihin, and Mikuni. Of the most popular, all have butterfly chokes. By the most popular, I mean the type most everyone buys. There are better choices, but they cost more. What I KNOW is, the Mikuni is far and away the easiest to find jets for. The Keihin jets can be found, but considerable looking is involved. The Sheng Wei is the most difficult to re-jet, as the pilot jet has to be replaced, and the carburetor body has to be tapped in order to fit a different pilot jet. I don't know if the Sheng Wei is made like that because it is cheaper to make them that way, or if it was so that you can't change the pilot jet, hence forcing you to run ultra lean on the low end. And, of course the idea behind making the needle with only one slot in it is also to also force you to run way too lean up to 3/4's throttle. It is easy to change main jets in all of them. On carbs with only one slot on the needle, you have to put washers between the throttle slide floor and the needle clip. On a dual sport, I want perfect carburation from idle right on up, because I'm going to use it off and on road. The Mikuni is the easiest answer to this problem. Or maybe I should say it was. The newer cloned Mikuni's are more like the Keihin than a real Mikuni. So, the next step up in the round slide carbs is the VM-26 that has a built in starting circuit instead of a choke butterfly. This is primarily an advantage at the top end, as there is a signifigant reduction in air flow restriction at the mouth of the carburetor. But the other advantage is in the location of the idle speed screw on the left side of the carb, and the idle mixture screw on the right side...ARH

[Ariel Red Hunter]

I'm pretty sure that you guys have one of those "a-ha" moments, when something you've read or heard does not jibe with something in your experience. So it was yesterday with Hawk tire pressures. A rider on this forum mentioned his bike was supposed to be carrying around 35 or 36 lbs of pressure at the rear tire. And a pretty high pressure in the front, if memory serves. So I went through my stash of Owners Guides to see if my memory was telling me true that we never carried that much pressure in "ye golden days of yore". Now I know that many of you are sick of hearing about my beloved Ariel Red Hunter, but bear with me for just a minute while I quote from my Ariel manual on the subject of tire pressures. These pressures were for Dunlop Cord Tyres. The front on my bike was a 3.25X20. The recommended tire pressure was 18 lbs. The rear was a 3.50X19. The recommended tire pressure was 19. This was for a 150 lb rider. On a bike that weighed about 350 lbs. For every 25 lbs heavier rider, or that weight passenger, one added 1 lb to the rear, and 1/4 lb to the front, as a rule of thumb. I don't know why the tires on the Hawk have such high pressure requirements. Could it be that the tire sidewalls can't take that much flexing, or maybe the tire will chunk at such pressures? Or perhaps the inside lip of the flange is not knurled, like they were on that bike of mine. It is awful hard to believe that 68 years after that bike was first sold, tires have regressed that much, wouldn't you agree?...ARH

[pete]

Put moden tyres on your Ariel , pump them up to 30psi...
You wouldn't beleave it's the same bike...
But the only draw back with that could be
it would show up the suspension with out
the half flat tyre taking up the small bumps before it got to
the suspension...




.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by pete

Put moden tyres on your Ariel , pump them up to 30psi...
You wouldn't beleave it's the same bike...
But the only draw back with that could be
it would show up the suspension with out
the half flat tyre taking up the small bumps before it got to
the suspension...




.

I'm sure you are right about the suspension, especially the rear. But, since suspension is so much better now than ever before, why do trials bikes still run such low pressure? I presume it is so that the tire can conform to the terrain, and hence, improve traction on rough surfaces. Roads in 1950 were not nearly as smooth as they are now. Paved roads, that is. Gravelled roads in most of the United States are maintained much worse now then they were then. And then there is off road. But, to reinforce your point, the local dirt track race cars use very wide tires using less than 12 pounds of air pressure to make up for the shortcomings of their suspension, which is live axles front and rear....ARH

[Bruce's]

They also have rim locks while most out the door china bikes do not ,also because they are dirt track ,they are not going on the road ,while plated road legal bikes have to deal with high speeds on pavement .