Venom Vader and Hellcat the same?

scoot newb · 09-14-2018, 05:57 AM

I was looking at the Hellcat but after looking more...

Venom x21R 125cc vs x20 125cc Vader vs Hellcat. Are they all the same? Same interchangeable parts? Does one perform better than the other? Do they all need bolts lock-tited and tightened? Are the parts interchangeable?

Thanks.

imapdog · 09-14-2018, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoot newb

I was looking at the Hellcat but after looking more...

Venom x21R 125cc vs x20 125cc Vader vs Hellcat. Are they all the same? Same interchangeable parts? Does one perform better than the other? Do they all need bolts lock-tited and tightened? Are the parts interchangeable?

Thanks.

i think they are different in more ways than people think. maybe the common parts are more similar...my engine on the vader II engine stamped 127cc, and i think someone here mentioned the hellcat engine has it stamped 124cc.
would like to know this. i can only verify vader II is 127cc stamp....

RedCrowRides · 09-14-2018, 09:47 AM

They are all about the same performance wise ,and they all will need the loctite attention, changing the shipping oil out to "real" oil before you start it ,and greasing things that need to be greased. Most people end up putting aftermarket body parts and other accessories that are made for the Honda Grom on them, so if you plan to do that ,stay with a Clone that has the Grom style bodywork, there is a "Ducati Monster" style Clone that Grom plastics just wont fit on .
No Grom engine parts will fit a China Bike ,but a lot of the chassis, body, and suspension parts will .Most all China bike engine parts interchange ,as in Vader parts will fit a Hellcat and vice versa ,the carb kit we all use for example fits all of them no matter what make or model.

Basically it comes down to which one looks best to you, where you can get the best price ,and if the Dealer offers any real support if that matters to you. I personally own a Gen2 Vader and love it , I got it from Venom and would buy from them again and I know Imapdog has had a lot of them , but we also have a lot of happy Hellcat owners/ riders here so it's up to you really.

kirbo7106 · 09-14-2018, 12:32 PM

RedCrowRides is spot on! I choose a Hellcat because it was a couple hundred dollars cheaper, I like the dealership and I like the wheels better. The wheels look more like actual Grom wheels. Ok, I think those wheels will be easier to clean. I priced the wheels from the Hellcat for $70 each. I like the lower fairing on the Vader, but it’s not offered on the Hellcat. I can buy the lower fairing for about $70. Another item I liked was the black engine with the polished aluminum covers. So what it all comes down to is, what makes you go: “Wow! I gotta have one of those!”

Let us know what you decide!

scoot newb · 09-14-2018, 06:57 PM

Thanks for the replies. I liked the look of the Venom but not worth the $400 difference. Looks like Hellcat it is!

kirbo7106 · 09-14-2018, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoot newb

Thanks for the replies. I liked the look of the Venom but not worth the $400 difference. Looks like Hellcat it is!

What color are you going with? Post some pictures when you get it!

Enjoy the Ride!

scoot newb · 09-14-2018, 09:10 PM

Well, I am going with red but I like the white one better. See, I'm thinking I can just slap the 'moped' sticker from the red ATM-1 50 on the Hellcat and nobody will notice.

scoot newb · 09-14-2018, 10:00 PM

I did it! I was speaking with Jeff from FamilyGoKarts on the phone about warranty coverage and what would happen if say like the bottom end of the engine was damaged etc etc... He was nice enough to take the order over the phone. I got a white one. I hope I do not get a lemon.

I guess I'll just legit register it. I just liked how easy the moped registration here is. $40 no questions, no inspection, no insurance.

kirbo7106 · 09-14-2018, 10:32 PM

I liked the red one also, but the white won out! I live in Florida and red turns into pink. The sun in Florida is brutal! I don’t think you’ll get a lemon, just be sure to go through all the checks mentioned on this forum.

Keep us posted on your New Hellcat!

Hellkitty · 09-14-2018, 10:41 PM

I think you'll be happy with your Hellcat, I really like mine. One good thing about the Hellcat is that all the parts are available through Parkskit.com. I just ordered the plastic trim piece that goes under the seat. I ordered the left side and they sent me the right side.....twice. Each time I notified them that it was the wrong side they promptly sent me out another one no questions asked. The third one came today, i had it shipped to my moms house so I'm hoping this time its the right one......well actually the left one. Ill find out tomorrow. The parts are cheap but they charge a lot for shipping.

They finally sent me the correct one!

scoot newb · 09-14-2018, 10:58 PM

Wow. That is a completely different experience from what I had with partskit.com. Glad you did not experience problems or at least they are attempting to rectify the problems. There is even a warning on r/TaoTao in regard to ordering from them. So many people had problems.
EDITED

Ordering parts for my ATM 50 was a complete disaster. I'd received wrong and/or damaged parts. When returning the damaged or wrong part i was sent another part that was damaged and wrong. Just trying to get a battery cover was a nightmare. I ordered some bolts for the body parts and was sent some random screws in a zip lock baggie. Luckily they do not respond to anything including the charge back from the Amex.

scoot newb · 09-14-2018, 11:01 PM

I am wondering if this will pass inspection with the modded carb and exhaust. I am so tempted to register it as a moped.
Thanks all for the advice and supportive comments.

RedCrowRides · 09-15-2018, 09:49 AM

I own a Vader ,but honestly if I could have ordered a Hellcat at the time and saved $400, that's what I would have done ,because parts for these bikes whether OEM or aftermarket are cheap, and for me modding a bike to make it how i want it is half the fun and you can do a lot of modding for $400 if you shop carefully .That amount will easily cover a VM22 Mikuni Carb swap kit ,a new pipe ,bars ,levers,grips and mirrors with cash left over.,and even cheap Chinese EBay aftermarket parts will be better than the factory bits. There just isn't enough difference between a Vader and a Hellcat to offset paying $200 to $400 more for one over the other in my opinion, especially if your plan is to modify it . ,because anything you feel is deficient can easily be taken care of.

Chinabike · 09-15-2018, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoot newb

I am wondering if this will pass inspection with the modded carb and exhaust. I am so tempted to register it as a moped.
Thanks all for the advice and supportive comments.

Get it registered as a motorcycle before you mod it. I don't think you can reg. legally as a scoot anyways.

scoot newb · 09-16-2018, 12:14 AM

True.

Time to fess up.

I canceled the order early this morning. I am going to wait until I can get one AND the zs190 motor.

I was literally up all night watching videos on Grom clones, reading different forum threads and getting stoked... I had a real Mikuni, a spinner and the 17t sprocket in various online carts. Then I stumbled on to the Bang Bang Scooter Gang videos and for whatever reason, after watching a few of those videos I didn't want a Grom clone anymore.

09-14-2018, 05:57 AM	#1
scoot newb Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 403	Venom Vader and Hellcat the same? I was looking at the Hellcat but after looking more... Venom x21R 125cc vs x20 125cc Vader vs Hellcat. Are they all the same? Same interchangeable parts? Does one perform better than the other? Do they all need bolts lock-tited and tightened? Are the parts interchangeable? Thanks.
	0

09-14-2018, 09:47 AM	#3
RedCrowRides Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Florida Posts: 759	They are all about the same performance wise ,and they all will need the loctite attention, changing the shipping oil out to "real" oil before you start it ,and greasing things that need to be greased. Most people end up putting aftermarket body parts and other accessories that are made for the Honda Grom on them, so if you plan to do that ,stay with a Clone that has the Grom style bodywork, there is a "Ducati Monster" style Clone that Grom plastics just wont fit on . No Grom engine parts will fit a China Bike ,but a lot of the chassis, body, and suspension parts will .Most all China bike engine parts interchange ,as in Vader parts will fit a Hellcat and vice versa ,the carb kit we all use for example fits all of them no matter what make or model. Basically it comes down to which one looks best to you, where you can get the best price ,and if the Dealer offers any real support if that matters to you. I personally own a Gen2 Vader and love it , I got it from Venom and would buy from them again and I know Imapdog has had a lot of them , but we also have a lot of happy Hellcat owners/ riders here so it's up to you really. __________________ 2001 Mustang GT 2004 Sportster 2018 VADER 2020 Orion RXB250L
	3

09-14-2018, 12:32 PM	#4
kirbo7106 Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Holiday, Florida Posts: 672	RedCrowRides is spot on! I choose a Hellcat because it was a couple hundred dollars cheaper, I like the dealership and I like the wheels better. The wheels look more like actual Grom wheels. Ok, I think those wheels will be easier to clean. I priced the wheels from the Hellcat for $70 each. I like the lower fairing on the Vader, but it’s not offered on the Hellcat. I can buy the lower fairing for about $70. Another item I liked was the black engine with the polished aluminum covers. So what it all comes down to is, what makes you go: “Wow! I gotta have one of those!” Let us know what you decide! __________________ Dan-O -2018 Tao Tao HellCat - DOA -2016 Hawk 250 - Kitty Hawk - eBay exhaust, Mikuni carb(120 main/30 Pilot), airbox mod with K&N filter, digital cluster, total LEDs, 17/45 sprockets, RK chain, Shinko 244 tires, trunk, aftermarket levers, burrito tube, skid plate, Sargent Cycle Seat... -2003 HD Sportster 100th Anniversary -1999 Buell X-1 Lightning - Race kit, Buell Seat
	1

09-14-2018, 10:32 PM	#9
kirbo7106 Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Holiday, Florida Posts: 672	Congrats! I liked the red one also, but the white won out! I live in Florida and red turns into pink. The sun in Florida is brutal! I don’t think you’ll get a lemon, just be sure to go through all the checks mentioned on this forum. Keep us posted on your New Hellcat! __________________ Dan-O -2018 Tao Tao HellCat - DOA -2016 Hawk 250 - Kitty Hawk - eBay exhaust, Mikuni carb(120 main/30 Pilot), airbox mod with K&N filter, digital cluster, total LEDs, 17/45 sprockets, RK chain, Shinko 244 tires, trunk, aftermarket levers, burrito tube, skid plate, Sargent Cycle Seat... -2003 HD Sportster 100th Anniversary -1999 Buell X-1 Lightning - Race kit, Buell Seat
	0

09-14-2018, 10:41 PM	#10
Hellkitty Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 216	I think you'll be happy with your Hellcat, I really like mine. One good thing about the Hellcat is that all the parts are available through Parkskit.com. I just ordered the plastic trim piece that goes under the seat. I ordered the left side and they sent me the right side.....twice. Each time I notified them that it was the wrong side they promptly sent me out another one no questions asked. The third one came today, i had it shipped to my moms house so I'm hoping this time its the right one......well actually the left one. Ill find out tomorrow. The parts are cheap but they charge a lot for shipping. They finally sent me the correct one! Last edited by Hellkitty; 09-15-2018 at 10:49 PM.
	1

09-14-2018, 06:57 PM	#5
scoot newb Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 403	Thanks for the replies. I liked the look of the Venom but not worth the $400 difference. Looks like Hellcat it is!
	2

09-14-2018, 09:10 PM	#7
scoot newb Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 403	Well, I am going with red but I like the white one better. See, I'm thinking I can just slap the 'moped' sticker from the red ATM-1 50 on the Hellcat and nobody will notice.
	0

09-14-2018, 10:00 PM	#8
scoot newb Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 403	I did it! I was speaking with Jeff from FamilyGoKarts on the phone about warranty coverage and what would happen if say like the bottom end of the engine was damaged etc etc... He was nice enough to take the order over the phone. I got a white one. I hope I do not get a lemon. I guess I'll just legit register it. I just liked how easy the moped registration here is. $40 no questions, no inspection, no insurance.
	1

09-14-2018, 10:58 PM	#11
scoot newb Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 403	Wow. That is a completely different experience from what I had with partskit.com. Glad you did not experience problems or at least they are attempting to rectify the problems. There is even a warning on r/TaoTao in regard to ordering from them. So many people had problems. EDITED Ordering parts for my ATM 50 was a complete disaster. I'd received wrong and/or damaged parts. When returning the damaged or wrong part i was sent another part that was damaged and wrong. Just trying to get a battery cover was a nightmare. I ordered some bolts for the body parts and was sent some random screws in a zip lock baggie. Luckily they do not respond to anything including the charge back from the Amex.
	0

09-14-2018, 11:01 PM	#12
scoot newb Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 403	I am wondering if this will pass inspection with the modded carb and exhaust. I am so tempted to register it as a moped. Thanks all for the advice and supportive comments.
	0

09-15-2018, 09:49 AM	#13
RedCrowRides Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Florida Posts: 759	I own a Vader ,but honestly if I could have ordered a Hellcat at the time and saved $400, that's what I would have done ,because parts for these bikes whether OEM or aftermarket are cheap, and for me modding a bike to make it how i want it is half the fun and you can do a lot of modding for $400 if you shop carefully .That amount will easily cover a VM22 Mikuni Carb swap kit ,a new pipe ,bars ,levers,grips and mirrors with cash left over.,and even cheap Chinese EBay aftermarket parts will be better than the factory bits. There just isn't enough difference between a Vader and a Hellcat to offset paying $200 to $400 more for one over the other in my opinion, especially if your plan is to modify it . ,because anything you feel is deficient can easily be taken care of. __________________ 2001 Mustang GT 2004 Sportster 2018 VADER 2020 Orion RXB250L
	2

09-16-2018, 12:14 AM	#15
scoot newb Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 403	True. Time to fess up. I canceled the order early this morning. I am going to wait until I can get one AND the zs190 motor. I was literally up all night watching videos on Grom clones, reading different forum threads and getting stoked... I had a real Mikuni, a spinner and the 17t sprocket in various online carts. Then I stumbled on to the Bang Bang Scooter Gang videos and for whatever reason, after watching a few of those videos I didn't want a Grom clone anymore.
	0