CCW Ace 400

[wheelbender6]

Here is the Cleveland Cycleworks Ace 400 and its a Looker. I can't find pricing or specs yet. Looks like it has the ShineRay single with dual exhaust ports.
-I wish it was carbureted, so that it would be easier to do speed mods.

https://clevelandcyclewerks.com/ace-400

[franque]

I wouldn't buy anything from them... They might have better photography, but they're always selling the same stuff as other Chinese importers, but at a minimum 30% markup.

[culcune]

Originally Posted by franque

I wouldn't buy anything from them... They might have better photography, but they're always selling the same stuff as other Chinese importers, but at a minimum 30% markup.

According to them, they are the original designers, and others 'steal' the design. Also, there are slight differences. When they rolled out da Heist, we had the Dongfang bobber. Looked identical. But, the main difference was in the engine. CCW had/has(?) a proprietary engine whose OEM was Lifan. It was 50 state certified for several years. Dongfang currently and probably did have Zongshen OEM their engines used in several models. But, unless one lived in California, was da Heist worth $1k more than the Dongfang bobber? There was a long running argument on the forum mychinamoto.com between a guy who started a thread on da Heist and our very own Barnone whose thread on the Dongfang bobber long outlived da Heist's thread (and might still be running--the thread, not the argument ) I am with you on it and would probably get the Dongfang, although for the longest time CCW teased us with a dual-sport I liked. They were going to roll out a Quingqi sourced bike like the XF 250 but utilizing their proprietary Lifan- sourced Hondoid engine vs. the Suzuki-cloned engine used in the XF. They never did release it.

[franque]

I did some sniffing, and I figured out that if you look at some of CCW's other models, they're selling things that Orion powersports (FX models), CSC (Ace 250), and SSR Motorsports (Hooligun [sic, that was painful to type]) sell, but usually for 30%+ more expensive than them. Their stuff tends to be overpriced, for example wanting $12 for a, presumably Chinese (as almost all of their bikes are made there), main jet.

They always claim that they designed it/it is unique to them, but everything is stupid expensive from them. They wanted $150 for a ShengWey PZ30B that was a "CCW Racing" carburetor.

[Biker_Andy]

Nice to see they have engines bigger then 250cc. I was very interested in CCW when they first produced Da Heist & Misfit. Initial reviews were great but bikes started falling apart after a month or two. Dealers started denying warranty, some stopped selling them. For me the final straw was when the founder said "CCW motorcycles make great second bikes". Like you shouldn't buy one as your only bike or first bike because it will ultimately leave you stranded somewhere.

[culcune]

I forgot about all the other models of comparison. They show the oddball FX model on their site which I do like, and Orion no longer seems to offer it. Not sure if CCW still actually carries them since their website (with very nice photos as you pointed out) is confusing in that they do not indicate what they still carry and what was from the past. They even eliminated their dealer network. Come to think of it, I have not seen their bikes on the EPA/DOT list for a few years, so my guess is they are in business nowadays selling parts and customizing existing customers' bikes, and/or selling bikes overseas as they had an international dealer network which did sell bikes they don't sell here, like the Hooligun 400 (rebadged Asiawing), and a few of CCW bikes with 125cc engines which are 'Learner' bikes in many countries. Cristini is able to get a EPA/DOT and CARB certificate for its Asiawing bike, the so-called AWD bikes they rebadge and sell, so what is CCW's excuse?

[culcune]

Originally Posted by Biker_Andy

Nice to see they have engines bigger then 250cc. I was very interested in CCW when they first produced Da Heist & Misfit. Initial reviews were great but bikes started falling apart after a month or two. Dealers started denying warranty, some stopped selling them. For me the final straw was when the founder said "CCW motorcycles make great second bikes". Like you shouldn't buy one as your only bike or first bike because it will ultimately leave you stranded somewhere.

They state on their website they no longer have a dealer network, so maybe the 'Chinese' in their bikes was coming up. On the one hand, those of us here understand that 'Chinese' and 'motorcycle' means you will have to get your hands dirty from time to time, but with the premium they charge(d) for bikes, not to mention a dealer's network, people were taking the bikes in 'too often' for work (but would be normal for mainstream bikes).

As far as the 'second bike' statement, I did not see that, but I can see him saying it. I also imagine the term 2nd bike saying it is more of a 'toy' of sorts. It is kind of like when manufacturers state 'first bike'. CCW would be guilty of both 'offenses'; insinuating their bikes are either second, or 'toy' bikes, and/or one to get for 'beginners'.

American Lifan does something like that with their X-Pect 200. They don't state 'second bike' but they do state 'beginner bike'. I like to think of it as a 'cruiser' of sorts like what I see the local snowbirds doing with TW200s or DR200s around here. A dual-sport for putting around, and maybe using it on some of the dirt roads around Yuma. I am not an expert rider by any means, but I am not a beginner, either, so then I have to ask myself if I want a non-beginner bike from another manufacturer. I like the idea of fuel-injection (almost completely unique to Lifan which is something that intrigued my interest in the X-Pect in the first place, not to mention the inherent quality) so then I ask myself if I should I go with a Hawk DLX? I haven't ruled out the Lifan KPM200, which is not referred to as a beginner's bike, so they might have 'tricked' me. Ironically, the entire current Lifan lineup in the US could be considered beginner's bikes or 'second bikes' but they don't refer to their other bikes as such, only the X-Pect. On Small Engine Velocity channel's video on the Lifan Lycan (Caesar received 3 Lifan bikes for evaluation including the Lycan, the KPR200, and the X-Pect 200) he mentioned that his friends who rode the Lycan (cruiser) were contemplating getting one for their girlfriends to learn to ride cruisers--in other words, a beginner bike. Lifan actually had something on their site last year about their bikes being 'simplistic' or 'back to basic' since their current lineup contains all small displacement bikes. Almost a 'Zen-like' reference. It sounds like I am going off on a tangent, but tying it in all together, it is off-putting to kind of blow off your entire lineup as either 'beginner's bikes' or 'second bikes/toys' whereas Lifan refers to its lineup in the US in Zen-like terms (other than its X-Pect 200 dual-sport). There is a difference

[Megadan]

I don't think they even sell any of their bikes here in the U.S. anymore. I have not seen a new one for sale anywhere for a couple of years, and they don't even list a way to purchase them on their site. It doesn't surprise me at all though. They hyped up their brand as being "American" when they were first released, even so far as to being featured on Jay Lenos Garage at one point.

They were a marketing firm trying to sell a poor quality product for top shelf prices. What slowly ruined them was social media/the internet. Endless reviews on Youtube calling out the quality issues and numerous problems the bikes had. The previously mentioned forum threads pointing out those same issues as well as the price disparity on the parts. My favorite was the pilot jet that their carbs used was the same one the Hawks used. a jet that probably cost them $1 a pop, that they sold for $16.

Greed at its finest.

[franque]

Yeah, they recently had a preview of an electric bike they'll be selling for $15k on RevZilla, and I posted something similar to what you just said, Dan, and someone started attacking me there, possibly linked to their marketing department.

When I mentioned the crazy prices of jets, which I consulted in their page, I received an attack comment about a week later, and they had deleted the product.

[mdschultz]

CCW are a bunch of thinned skinned weenies who peddle crap products. Their new electric bike has to be the ugliest thing I have ever seen. They constantly talk about these huge plans and then never deliver. Whatever happened to the 500cc Misfit Cleveland? Guarantee you will never be able to purchase the Ace 400 in the states. They do not care about the US market and now they are going to be the next big thing in electric bikes. I call B.S.

[culcune]

Originally Posted by mdschultz

CCW are a bunch of thinned skinned weenies who peddle crap products. Their new electric bike has to be the ugliest thing I have ever seen. They constantly talk about these huge plans and then never deliver. Whatever happened to the 500cc Misfit Cleveland? Guarantee you will never be able to purchase the Ace 400 in the states. They do not care about the US market and now they are going to be the next big thing in electric bikes. I call B.S.

They were supposed to offer the. Hooligun dual-sport which never materialized. Both a 250 version which was a rebadged Qingqi which is sold by SSR as the XF250. They were going to use their proprietary engine which was already certified. Never materialized. Their current Hooligun on their site (maybe sold in other markets) is the Asiawing dual-sport which Cristini sells as a 2 wheel drive bike here including California.

[Barnone]

Originally Posted by wheelbender6

Here is the Cleveland Cycleworks Ace 400 and its a Looker. I can't find pricing or specs yet. Looks like it has the ShineRay single with dual exhaust ports.
-I wish it was carbureted, so that it would be easier to do speed mods.

https://clevelandcyclewerks.com/ace-400

Just another version of the Shineray 400 sold as the Genuine G400C here in the US and other rebrands around the world such as Mash.
I would like to buy the Mash or the Shineray sidecar but it is not available in the US.

[culcune]

You KNOW the Genuine bike would have sold much better here if they had them at the price they are sold at here but came standard with the sidecar. Surely the sidecar could be obtained and mail-ordered considering it is not a mechanical part that would need EPA certification. That would make the Genuine bike a far more interesting proposition hands down. Those who could not afford a Ural but wanted a cult-status sidecar motorcycle could settle on the Genuine bike with a sidecar. Sure, it does not offer the two-wheel drive capability of the Ural, but I guarantee you there are hipsters with money living in places like downtown L.A. who have no idea what a Ural actually is, but would want one for the sidecar. I use downtown L.A. as an example because the one Genuine dealer I visited in L.A. when I lived there for a short time they had a Genuine G400 for MSRP and I was quoted over $6k OTD; they claimed to have sold a couple of them at the time and I actually believe them, because the urban market of downtown L.A. consists of young transplants who landed good jobs and have money to burn, and crave attention--something a retro bike would provide. But, that is a limited market overall. A sidecar would widen that market immensely to idiots like me; without money or 'hip'!!

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by culcune

the one Genuine dealer I visited in L.A. when I lived there for a short time they had a Genuine G400 for MSRP and I was quoted over $6k OTD;

That's $1400 over MSRP from Genuine, and their MSRP is honestly too high given what you get.

There are 5 dealers around me, all within about 150-180 miles away that have had the same bikes listed for sale for over a year now. One of them has the bike marked down to what I can assume is near cost from Genuine, $3800, and it has been listed at that price for 10 months now.

Not going to lie, I am kind of tempted to go over there with cash in had and see if I can get it for 3500 lol.

[wheelbender6]

The G400C wasn't offered for sale until long after that market segment became crowded.
-the MSRP is at least $500 too high. It does not offer enough performance to justify the price.
-most scooters sold by Genuine offer a lot for the money. I don't understand why the G400C doesn't.