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Old 10-03-2016, 12:14 AM   #1
Panic-Pete   Panic-Pete is offline
 
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How to...for Skyteam V-Raptor (Retro) 250

Valve cleareance, control and adjustment, at the 233cc Honda clone engine, used in the Skyteam V-Raptor 250.

"my01", asked for a maintenance tutorial for the 250 V Raptor.
There already are some very good threads about Valve cleareance in the stickys, though i can´t see the pics anymore... anyway, here it is.

The Motor is an 233cc overhead camshaft, two valve, four-cycle engine.
Valve cleareance is 0.05mm for both, intake and exhaust valve (according to owners manual.)

Take off seat and tank and remove the horn. Disassamble the three bolt bracket holding the cylinderhead to the frame.


Horn assembly

clylinderhead bracket

note the three washers located at the right side. these will by reassambled just like in the picture.

Remove the Valve caps as well as the small covers on the generator side of the engine, also the sparkplug.

You need a 24mm hex-ringspanner.





Spanner and surplus material on the frame might need to be grinded down some.
it´s a tight fit on the intake side.



note washer as a makeshift tool for control orifice cap.

Turn the crankshaft on the generator side, counterclockwise, with a 14mm hex socket wrench.

Observe the intake rockerarm going down and up again. Turn farther until the index marks appear in the control orifice.


left index stands for fire/ignition, right and longer marking stands for Top-Dead Center.

Do not turn the engine anymore.
This is the position the Valve cleareance has to be checked and/or adjusted, if necessary.



To check, slide the feeler gauge between adjusting screw and valve stem. Slide in sideways because 0.05mm is way to flimsy to push it through.

While drawing it out between the two surfaces, you should feel a slight resistance. No resistance means a too big clereance. If you can´t get the gauge in, at all, or if resistance is strong, the cleareance is to small.



To adjust, open up the 10mm jam nut and turn the adjustingscrew with your fingers. Turn clockwise until you feel, it just touches the gauge.
Or open it up (couterclockwise) for the same result.

If the cleareance ist properly adjusted, secure the jam nut.

Than check again. It might need a few times until you get it right. jamming the nut does two things at the same time. First it turns the screw a bit and second, rises it up.
these movements are micro-small... but they can ruin the adjustment and have to be taken into account.
Theoretically the adjustingscrew can be hold by the square on it´s top with a tool.....practically there´s no space for it. perform the procedure on both, intake and exhaust-valve.

If things are set alright, turn the crankshaft several times. Then turn it into "Ignition Top Dead Center" as described
(Intake valve opens, intake valve closes.. next index markings are your´s for Ignition-TDC)

Then check again., if necessary re-adjust. Then re-assemble and run the engine to check for noise and leaks. (all sealing-surfaces like O-Rings should be oily for re-assembling, though, check for dirt-particles.)

slightly bigger cleareance like 0.07mm is okay and does not hamper the engines performance

Bigger means that the motor starts tickin´ away. Way too big, it starts "hammering"
No question, this will harm the engine and has to be re-adjusted.

If cleareance is too tight it´ll harm the valves, may be, up to the point of total destruction of valves and engine.

Drive safely.

Jürgen
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Last edited by Panic-Pete; 10-03-2016 at 10:45 AM.
 
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:47 AM   #2
Panic-Pete   Panic-Pete is offline
 
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Rough clutch

There were some complaints about a rough working clutch with the V-Raptor.

In most cases the clutch is working correct.
The Problem is a lot of play in the gearbox shafts and the very long secondary drive.
The chain is very long and tends to jolt and twitch, starting from a standstill.
Main reason is that the drivetrain hasn´t any jolt-dampers. Neither inside the rear hub, between sprocket and hub nor inside the clutch itself. (now ask why the bike is sold at these prices....?!)

So what can be done ?

Adjust the chain correctly and make shure it is greased all the time.
Adjust Clutchplay at the engines working temperature.
Clutchplates get thicker with the motor-temperature rising and so increase clutchplay.
Become an expert clutch operator.(smooth operator....)

drive smooth ;-)
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Old 10-28-2016, 10:25 AM   #3
thedoc62   thedoc62 is offline
 
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thanx a lot pal
i'll print all of this and give it to my mechanic
wish i could do it myself
i wanted to bring my raptor anyway cause it happened a couple of times to find the exhaust connection on engine's head a lot loose............and some oil (?) spots/leaks around valve cap area
right now I received a megaton highway hawk exhaust terminal.........will be fun trying it on but I fear it will be WAY TOO LOUD..........i'll ask my exhaust man to find some adaptable db killer and/or noise killer foam to stuff it a bit.......but not too much !!! LOL
the idea of a 223 mono sounding like a chopper makes me laugh already


 
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Old 10-28-2016, 10:32 AM   #4
thedoc62   thedoc62 is offline
 
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oh, about your tips on clutch issue...........I do agree completely, with daily use one learns how to deal with it properly, nonetheless I'd be curious to let my mechanic work a bit on that area to reduce all the mess happening every time you get going or get to higher/lower shifting
quite a lot of italian owners did change the original clutch plates as well
so far I am loosing count of the original parts I had to substitute but the bike keeps going
but one major problem I'd love to solve is the absolutely poor quality of the front suspensions, even more noticeable on our miserable roads and with the modified rear suspension I got (preownned and coming from a 600 cc Honda Hornet).......I get hammered from wrists to neck on every hole I fail to skip........and that's BAD when your previous bike was a DRZ


 
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Old 10-29-2016, 12:06 AM   #5
Panic-Pete   Panic-Pete is offline
 
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Hello Doc.

Check the fork seals for leakeage. Change the damperoil. However i have no data on this.
I would start with SAE 10W and 110 -120 cc.

Stock adjustment works well on mine, on bad roads too.

For rear Suspension, the XL600 shock absorber ist much too strong. Spring rating as well as dampingforces are much too much, for the little V Raptor.

Do you have a chance to get an original damper ?
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Old 10-29-2016, 04:16 AM   #6
thedoc62   thedoc62 is offline
 
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When I need parts I get them from a spanish site (Motorrecambio.es), they usually ship fast and not expensive, but when I can use european parts I usually prefer them to the original chinese ones
The Hornet used rear mono (60 euros expense) works just fine either in solo or couple ride, maybe even too good and it makes the front suspensions feel poorer than they really are
I wouldn't go back to the original rear suspension though, a real piece of junk costing around 130 euros............no way
However, I am sick of hearing that "CLUNK" noise everytime I hit a bump or a hole and i fear it also causes the frequent damage to front lamps
I got a aftermarket odometer whose inner light went off almost immediately and every now and then i have to check the cable connections between it and front wheel cause they tend to unscrew..........vibrations can bring any kind of trouble
it would be nice to find some aftermarket front suspensions from some chinese pitbike and adapt them............maybe i'll start searching around


 
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Old 12-30-2016, 06:28 AM   #7
thedoc62   thedoc62 is offline
 
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wish I could post that my raptor was easily reaching 120 km/h like the friend said before in this discussion...............not sure if I ever reached that, but surely it took a LOOOOOONG launch to do so
moreover, travelling for too long at that speed, each and every time I f**k up some headlight or taillight bulb or some other part gets lost due to heavy vibrations
since I still have a pretty heavy hand on throttle, few days ago I almost messed up my engine during a highway speeding..............engine suddenly lost power and almost died so I instantly pulled clutch to avoid tire block and stopped in a park area
few minutes after I slowly moved to my mechanic with a strange sound coming from engine head
he confirmed my suspect about a initial seizure (not sure if this is the right to define piston and cylinder starting to get stuck due to overheating, although oil level was ok, but this happened to me in the past on both 2-stroke and 4-stroke engines while I was speeding a lot for too long)
he suggested me to just get going and avoid further speeding cause this bike is not meant to be used like that, but the noise is still there and I feel frustrated as anybody can imagine..............what's the use in riding a bike when you cannot speed from time to time ?
it sounds like riding a ill horse that can just trot and not gallop...........
he thinks the only reason to open engine would be substituting the whole power unit (piston, cylinder ans so on) and so far it's not worth the expense
anyhow, should this be the case, does any of you raptor owners out there know about websites where I can find aftermarket pieces (even better if they are NOT from Skyteam and if displacement is a bit bigger than 223 cc) ???


 
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:22 AM   #8
Ariel Red Hunter   Ariel Red Hunter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoc62 View Post
When I need parts I get them from a spanish site (Motorrecambio.es), they usually ship fast and not expensive, but when I can use european parts I usually prefer them to the original chinese ones
The Hornet used rear mono (60 euros expense) works just fine either in solo or couple ride, maybe even too good and it makes the front suspensions feel poorer than they really are
I wouldn't go back to the original rear suspension though, a real piece of junk costing around 130 euros............no way
However, I am sick of hearing that "CLUNK" noise everytime I hit a bump or a hole and i fear it also causes the frequent damage to front lamps
I got a aftermarket odometer whose inner light went off almost immediately and every now and then i have to check the cable connections between it and front wheel cause they tend to unscrew..........vibrations can bring any kind of trouble
it would be nice to find some aftermarket front suspensions from some chinese pitbike and adapt them............maybe i'll start searching around
Well, what you describe sure sounds like you seized a piston. This is often caused by too lean a main jet, or lubricant failure. It is not any hotter in Italy than it is in Texas, for example, so I don't think high ambient temperature is the problem. This is the first time I've heard of this problem on a China bike. Changing out a damaged piston is NOT a big deal. Usually all of the damage is to the piston. A new piston with new rings will require a break-in all over again. I would had the mechanic change the oil and clean the strainer and the centrifical oil filter, before I ran that engine again. Very likely there are metal particles in the oil. On the front fork issue, the original oil that came with the bike is more of an anti-rust oil than a fork oil. I would change it to automatic transmission oil. Try GM Dexron ATF. If it's better, but still not stiff enough, try Ford Mercon. That super heavy rear suspension unit in the rear is overloading the front forks.


 
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:34 AM   #9
Krasi_BG   Krasi_BG is offline
 
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And make the carb richer regardless of what you think. They usually come lean from the factory anyway, and your new exhaust certainly made a difference.

I'm with Ariel Red Hunter on the new piston vs. new engine. It's not worth the hassle to try to put in a new engine. If you want a different engine, it's easier and probably even cheaper to change the whole bike.


 
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:19 AM   #10
Panic-Pete   Panic-Pete is offline
 
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Doc, as far you told us, you did a lot of modifications to your V-Raptor.

Including removal of the catalyzer, work on the carb, exchange of airfilter for more airflow.

Probably the Mixture got very lean, especially on high revs and/or high engine load.(as already mentioned by others.) Lean air/gasoline mixtures burn hotter significantly, causing these kind of damage.

e.g. modifications on mine... add up to, setting the jet-needle one step higher and getting the idle (mixture) screw half a turn richer.
Also i exchanged the rubber seal of the carb´s slider cap with sealing cardboard.

All measueres meant to reduce the motors working temperature and increase reliability. Indeed, the Motor can be run at "full ahead", all day long. (...even at ambient temperatures around 30°C.) Setting works finest at altitudes from zero to a 1000 meters. Carb has original jets.

This kind of tuning is not for speed and power. if i want to speed up a bit on a bike....i ride one better suited than the V-Raptor. (Wich i see rather as a moderate motorhiking thingy or a toy, in the best sense of the word .)

regards

Juergen
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Last edited by Panic-Pete; 01-08-2017 at 03:43 AM.
 
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:38 AM   #11
Panic-Pete   Panic-Pete is offline
 
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Back on topic.

I finally found the pics on how to get to and clean the oil centrifuge.



Lets start.

Drive the Bike up to Engines working temperature.

Loosen up the clutch-side engine-cover-screws (crosswise from outer to inner screws )
don´t remove or touch the cover yet.
Point is, that with loosened screws, the cover is cooling faster than the rest of the engine.
Let the engine cool down. This way the cover-seal will divide from the cover more easy, probably without any damage and can be used again. If the seal remains intact, don´t clean the sealing planes and seal. Let them just be like the are. If you want you can perform an oilchange now. (with engine still warm and all...)

Remove right side footrest and rear brake switch. Remove kickstart-lever
Remove clutch-cable from its engine-lever. (to create more space for these works, remove the exhausts downpipe)

After the Motor has cooled down, take off cover screws and loosen the enginecover with a rubberhammer.
Take off the Cover and screw off the centrifuge cover.

Clean out with break-cleaner or gasoline, using a Brush.

I know, its not the right way in an environment protective way. So feel free to add your ideas.

At reassembling think of tightening the engine-cover-scews crosswise inner screws first,working in 2-3 steps to the outer ones.

If using the old (intact) seal just leave surfaces as they are (exept if there is Sand or dirtparticles on the seal or surfaces in conjunction.)

With or without new seal, if surfaces are plane and in order, don´t use a sealing compound. let the surfaces be oil-wet.

I clean the centrifuge every 10000 Km.







regards

Juergen
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Last edited by Panic-Pete; 01-08-2017 at 02:39 AM.
 
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Old 01-19-2017, 09:02 PM   #12
zingshoen   zingshoen is offline
 
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good info, panic-pete, thanks from queensland! as my sig shows, i put a similar engine into the old XL and had similar issues (clutch) - sure doc62 is running lean round naples, what s your jet combo? - you could also have an air leak round the carbie?

i run 22.5 pilot and 110 main - due to low sprocket ratio (13/46 from memory) practical top speed round 90, but very good acceleration...plus the bike vibrates too much at high speed...i guess setting those motors up for top speed is useless unless you change the sprocket ratio coz you live in a flat area and need to commute long stretches of sealed road.

only other thing, if you live in a warm country, like here in queensland or naples during the warm three quarters of the year, you might help your clutch by using a monograde SAE 40 oil, with 250ml of SAE 10-40 mixed in. i find that it reduces the tendency of the clutch to chatter.
i have limited tolerance for chatter, let alone clutch chatter!
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:22 AM   #13
thedoc62   thedoc62 is offline
 
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tales of the expected.............

thanx everyone out there for your precious advices and expert mechanical considerations but, as things can only get worse when they start going bad, my Raptor is again at my mechanic shop..............I haven't used it for over a month due to the crazy cold weather from late december on, and after a afternoon ride at very low speed (was afraid to pinch piston again) I felt as if something had fallen away from the bike and hit my leg............pulled aside and looked along the way with no success.............gave a look at the bike from any side and everything seemed normal..........started engine and realized that starting lever was MOVING by itself as soon as the bike started going, as if a ghost was kickstarting it at the same time
had no other chance to slowly ride to my mechanic and as soon as I arrived there things got worse and needed to sadly leave it
he phoned me a couple of hours ago telling me "no use in opening and changing parts, get a new or used whole engine"
BIG questions:
- do I really need a complete new or used engine ?
- will I EVER be able to get one from China or Europe in short times ?
- wouldn't be better/cheaper to open and check ?
- what should I expect to be broken ?
- while I was walking away to get a bus I passed by the mechanic showroom (yes, he is also a seller) and a brand new SWM SM500R was blinking me.........."hey I am a 2016 model on offer, no ABS and euro3 exhaust specification but do you really care ? c'mon big boy bring me home at just 4900 euros, we'll have BIG FUN together !"...........maybe my mechanic's advice is a bit biased...............


 
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Old 02-14-2017, 12:41 PM   #14
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Philosophical interpretation

Between a rock and a hard place. You know the only way out is knowledge and data. Question, is it worth it to you (timewise) to discover the answer? If you had the ability and knowledge it would probably be a diy issue but since you are having to pay the profit the mechnic has to charge may not make it worth it. You never know till you know.

Now throw this in the trash and go spend those euros
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:12 AM   #15
Krasi_BG   Krasi_BG is offline
 
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Well, the least you can do is ask these guys for the price of a complete engine:

http://www.skyteammotor.com/Home/

Here in Bulgaria for example we have one dealer of Chinese parts, who sells a similar engine for ~500eur

http://motobg.net/ocart/%D0%B4%D0%B2...0%BC3-sku-1593

I know that's like half of what the bike's worth, but it's inevitable when you're facing a complete engine transplant.


 
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