2022 1/2 Templar X - Page 2

IdahoRider · 09-01-2022, 04:08 PM

I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?

**JerryHawk250** · 09-01-2022, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoRider

I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?

How much elevation change are you talking about? That could make a difference on your choice. EFI will automatically tune itself for the elevation change. If we are only talking a few hundred feet difference it shouldn't matter. 1500 or more feet in elevation change will make a difference on carb jetting.

J4Fun · 09-01-2022, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoRider

I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?

You answered your on question, planing on riding at higher elevations! KPX is the best choice for you! That is IMHO! Just knowing the elevation in the West can change dramatically. Just my thoughts…

TominMO · 09-01-2022, 04:56 PM

Gonna slightly revise my opinion. It depends on how much elevation change you will be doing, and how often. If you're just going to do trips like this only rarely and you really prefer the Templar, then get the Templar. But if you will be significantly changing altitude fairly often, get the KPX.

Thumper · 09-01-2022, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoRider

I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?

Jet for your altitude, and for the average elevation you ride. We are not racers! If you climb elevation, it will run rich. No biggie. These engines are happy to run a little rich.

Now adding an oil cooler, that might be a good idea for slow trail climbs!

TominMO · 09-01-2022, 04:25 PM

Given your elevation needs, IMO get an EFI bike, period. Plus the KPX already has dual sport tires, and you may find the gearing right without any changes. EFI is reliable, low to no-maintenance and very adaptable.

Here's some discussion of rejetting for altitude, both for and against. https://www.klrforum.com/threads/car...ltitude.54394/

Hap · 11-15-2022, 12:31 PM

Nice job! Ill be doing that too soon enough.

Thumper · 11-15-2022, 02:16 PM

Excellent work Pete! Those things are well stuck with some kind of badass locktite aren't they!

The grinding approach is a backup. I'm glad you didn't have to resort to that

A note on jetting. I started the bike yesterday in freezing weather. It barely needed a momentary choke. Stalled, and then it started without choke, bone cold. I think I am a bit rich on the pilot jet.

The other think it did was it started to drift up to a high idle. I am pretty sure this same behavior happened to someone else recently. I thought maybe it was leaning out from a intake spigot leak (the rubber connector between the carb and head). But this really makes no sense since it didn't even need choke to start at 32 degrees cold!

I put the bike back under the tarp. Too cold to ride. This doesn't affect performance, but I would sure like to know what is causing this

Imposing Will · 11-17-2022, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

Excellent work Pete! Those things are well stuck with some kind of badass locktite aren't they!

The grinding approach is a backup. I'm glad you didn't have to resort to that

A note on jetting. I started the bike yesterday in freezing weather. It barely needed a momentary choke. Stalled, and then it started without choke, bone cold. I think I am a bit rich on the pilot jet.

The other think it did was it started to drift up to a high idle. I am pretty sure this same behavior happened to someone else recently. I thought maybe it was leaning out from a intake spigot leak (the rubber connector between the carb and head). But this really makes no sense since it didn't even need choke to start at 32 degrees cold!

I put the bike back under the tarp. Too cold to ride. This doesn't affect performance, but I would sure like to know what is causing this

Mine would idle high sometimes, as well-and occasionally stall. I didn't ride mine for about 4 days last week, and I pulled it out of the garage. It started, died, and wouldn't start again. I've only run non-eth in it, so I know it didn't clog up with corn syrup.

Checked fuel filter and flow, checked for spark-good. New NGK plug for a laugh. Nothing. So I did what all real men do, and pulled the boot...and blasted it with starting fluid. Started, ran out of laughing gas, and died. I could likely figure this carb out, but I don't have the patience right now. I'm in the middle of a street tracker build, so I'm looking for my other bikes to be runners. I ordered a Nibbi PE28 for it, and I'll give it a shot. If that fails, I'll get a real PE28. They're really not expensive, and I know they work. Some of the Chinese carbs are a real crapshoot.
I used to commute on a 2012 CCW Misfit. It was 5 years old with 9k miles when I bought it. Aside from a clogged emission mess once, it was dead reliable. I fixed all of that,and cleaned/rebuilt/rejetted the carb. It ran great. I sold it to a friend of my wife who's my age three years ago (I'm 52 now) who always wanted to learn how to ride. I clean the carb for her at the beginning of every spring, because she doesn't understand that "premium" doesn't mean non-eth. Literally emptied syrup out of it this year. Carb cleaner, compressed air...BOOM! Runs great. Carb looks like absolute cheap trash, but the bike always runs fantastic (when clean!!)
Might buy the bike back just for the carb.

Thumper · 01-17-2023, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imposing Will

Mine would idle high sometimes, as well-and occasionally stall. I didn't ride mine for about 4 days last week, and I pulled it out of the garage. It started, died, and wouldn't start again. I've only run non-eth in it, so I know it didn't clog up with corn syrup.

Checked fuel filter and flow, checked for spark-good. New NGK plug for a laugh. Nothing. So I did what all real men do, and pulled the boot...and blasted it with starting fluid. Started, ran out of laughing gas, and died. I could likely figure this carb out, but I don't have the patience right now. I'm in the middle of a street tracker build, so I'm looking for my other bikes to be runners. I ordered a Nibbi PE28 for it, and I'll give it a shot. If that fails, I'll get a real PE28. They're really not expensive, and I know they work. Some of the Chinese carbs are a real crapshoot.
I used to commute on a 2012 CCW Misfit. It was 5 years old with 9k miles when I bought it. Aside from a clogged emission mess once, it was dead reliable. I fixed all of that,and cleaned/rebuilt/rejetted the carb. It ran great. I sold it to a friend of my wife who's my age three years ago (I'm 52 now) who always wanted to learn how to ride. I clean the carb for her at the beginning of every spring, because she doesn't understand that "premium" doesn't mean non-eth. Literally emptied syrup out of it this year. Carb cleaner, compressed air...BOOM! Runs great. Carb looks like absolute cheap trash, but the bike always runs fantastic (when clean!!)
Might buy the bike back just for the carb.

I have observed that it seems to run better with more gas in the tank. More pressure on the fuel filter? I am going to replace it. Hammer, piggy bank, Pow! Deep pockets

Thumper · 02-01-2023, 07:00 PM

I did already describe sealing up the "manifold" up against the head with high temp RTV (single port intake plenum ?? )

Anyway, I was wondering about the OEM fuel filter. Is it flowing freely? So I got an inexpensive high flow 1/4" inline filter (under $4 from auto parts store). It is small and was an easy install.

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Views: 367
Size: 32.6 KB

I also worked on the choke linkage, which was sticky. After assembling it all back together, put the gas tank back on, added a gallon of premium (I use no ethanol high octane during break-in), and started it.

It needed some choke, but settled into a nice idle-elevated with my new easy big knob slide height screw! After a few revs, I dropped the slide a bit and ran it for a minute to warm up the engine (COLD OUT). Then took a ride. Running great and when I returned a few minutes later, I parked it and dropped the idle to ~1500rpm. Steady and stable, no stall!!!

I think a combination of leaky intake manifold seal and slow flow filter might have been causing the unstable idle and stalling. FIXED!

Imposing Will · 11-17-2022, 08:33 PM

Ohhh...but I really like the bike. It's fun, torquey enough, handles pretty well, suspension's OK, competent. I also have a Kayo 230. The Kayo is fun, kind of a "poor man's KTM Freeride" with a dogbaby of an engine. It's small, so it's easy to throw around, and it's a climber. Forks are decent, rear shock is way soft for my fat arse. The X dogwalks it, though-and it's plated. The Kayo is going away. Only rode it once, bought it with @ an hour on it from a rapper.

Thumper · 11-20-2022, 09:41 AM

The engine has the potential for making more torque and hp. If I can find the time this Winter, I will work on the head. I got a bit set for the Dremel to do the porting. It has been sitting there for 6 months!

I have also been looking for a compatible headpipe with a resonator (and no cat). They make them for the CG clones (ZS167FMM). I don't think these will fit the ZS172 clones.

Megadan and many others have install 4 degree (or other) timing advance key as well. KTM and Husqvarna engines are already significantly advanced, and lower advance keys are available for them (1 degree, 1.5 degree, etc). I have a timing light somewhere. I'd like to shoot the timing on the Temp X and find out what the OEM advance is. I had installed a dyna2000 on my first gen bandit so I could select advance settings. This kind of setup would be much easier than changing timing keys to explore the effect of advancing timing. I would like to use timing advance, but no more than needed to get a boost in power to complement the porting/exhaust mods. A new carb might make sense at some point as well, but the OEM smoothbore Youall has been adequate for the unmodified engine.

Finally, you can buy the 5speed and 6speed versions of this ZS172 for about $500. Maybe the best approach is to swap in a new stock engine and get it working, then begin all of the modification on the partially broken in, proven good engine I got with the bike. Or just modify the virgin new engine. Not sure which approach would be best.

Texas Pete · 11-20-2022, 10:15 AM

If I recall, Megadan used the method of order a new head and work on porting that. Once you have success just unbolt the old and swap in the new. Lower risk that way.

Thumper · 11-20-2022, 02:07 PM

I have considered that (just buy the head). But the difference between the price of an OHC head and the compete engine is just a few hundred. And you get all of the parts and a CDI unit with a complete new engine. Think about it... a spare transmission, clutch, stator/rotor, cylinder/piston/rings, all new seals/bearings, sprocket, and its a working replacement unit.

So you can plod along building a complete engine while enjoying a working motorcycle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

If I recall, Megadan used the method of order a new head and work on porting that. Once you have success just unbolt the old and swap in the new. Lower risk that way.

09-01-2022, 04:56 PM	#4
TominMO Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: De Soto, MO Posts: 1,869	Gonna slightly revise my opinion. It depends on how much elevation change you will be doing, and how often. If you're just going to do trips like this only rarely and you really prefer the Templar, then get the Templar. But if you will be significantly changing altitude fairly often, get the KPX. __________________ 2021 Lifan Xpect--sold 2022 Lifan KPX 1972 Honda CT90--The Carrot 1969 Honda CT90--The Tomahto Cheesy is the WDK (workplace drama king). Now retired. Nope, back in the saddle. Climate: The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A24fWmNA6lM How our government really works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjadCd0VRBw Question all authority.....think for yourself
	2

09-01-2022, 04:25 PM	#6
TominMO Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: De Soto, MO Posts: 1,869	Given your elevation needs, IMO get an EFI bike, period. Plus the KPX already has dual sport tires, and you may find the gearing right without any changes. EFI is reliable, low to no-maintenance and very adaptable. Here's some discussion of rejetting for altitude, both for and against. https://www.klrforum.com/threads/car...ltitude.54394/ __________________ 2021 Lifan Xpect--sold 2022 Lifan KPX 1972 Honda CT90--The Carrot 1969 Honda CT90--The Tomahto Cheesy is the WDK (workplace drama king). Now retired. Nope, back in the saddle. Climate: The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A24fWmNA6lM How our government really works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjadCd0VRBw Question all authority.....think for yourself
	0

02-01-2023, 07:00 PM	#11
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,282	update on idle stability I did already describe sealing up the "manifold" up against the head with high temp RTV (single port intake plenum ?? ) Anyway, I was wondering about the OEM fuel filter. Is it flowing freely? So I got an inexpensive high flow 1/4" inline filter (under $4 from auto parts store). It is small and was an easy install. I also worked on the choke linkage, which was sticky. After assembling it all back together, put the gas tank back on, added a gallon of premium (I use no ethanol high octane during break-in), and started it. It needed some choke, but settled into a nice idle-elevated with my new easy big knob slide height screw! After a few revs, I dropped the slide a bit and ran it for a minute to warm up the engine (COLD OUT). Then took a ride. Running great and when I returned a few minutes later, I parked it and dropped the idle to ~1500rpm. Steady and stable, no stall!!! I think a combination of leaky intake manifold seal and slow flow filter might have been causing the unstable idle and stalling. FIXED!
	0

11-20-2022, 10:15 AM	#14
Texas Pete Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 578	If I recall, Megadan used the method of order a new head and work on porting that. Once you have success just unbolt the old and swap in the new. Lower risk that way. __________________ 2022 1/2 Templar X 250 - 6 gear model - 13 Front / 40 Rear Sprockets - #42 / #120 Jets - 1mm thick nitrile O-ring needle shim (removed) - Kenda K761 Dual Sport Tires - Sedona Standard Thickness Inner Tubes - Stock OEM battery, carburetor, spark plug still going strong - https://youtu.be/dhAYEKH-jFQ Texas Pete's Templar X 250 Torque Specifications Sheet Texas Pete's Engine Displacement Calculator Texas Pete's Tire and Rim Compatibility
	1

09-01-2022, 04:08 PM	#1
IdahoRider Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 173	I have been going back and forth on whether to get this or the KPX 250. I plan on putting a smaller rear cog on and maybe a more dual sport oriented tire. I like the weight, adjustment options and the build quality you've mentioned, not to mention the big price difference. The only thing I'm not sure about is the carb. I live at 2500 ft elevation and plan on riding at higher elevations. Will I be happy with the carb as is or should I plan on rejetting or upgrading it?
	0

11-15-2022, 12:31 PM	#7
Hap Join Date: Aug 2022 Location: Maben, MS Posts: 164	Nice job! Ill be doing that too soon enough.
	0

11-15-2022, 02:16 PM	#8
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,282	Excellent work Pete! Those things are well stuck with some kind of badass locktite aren't they! The grinding approach is a backup. I'm glad you didn't have to resort to that A note on jetting. I started the bike yesterday in freezing weather. It barely needed a momentary choke. Stalled, and then it started without choke, bone cold. I think I am a bit rich on the pilot jet. The other think it did was it started to drift up to a high idle. I am pretty sure this same behavior happened to someone else recently. I thought maybe it was leaning out from a intake spigot leak (the rubber connector between the carb and head). But this really makes no sense since it didn't even need choke to start at 32 degrees cold! I put the bike back under the tarp. Too cold to ride. This doesn't affect performance, but I would sure like to know what is causing this
	1

11-17-2022, 08:33 PM	#12
Imposing Will Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Evansville, Indiana Posts: 16	Ohhh...but I really like the bike. It's fun, torquey enough, handles pretty well, suspension's OK, competent. I also have a Kayo 230. The Kayo is fun, kind of a "poor man's KTM Freeride" with a dogbaby of an engine. It's small, so it's easy to throw around, and it's a climber. Forks are decent, rear shock is way soft for my fat arse. The X dogwalks it, though-and it's plated. The Kayo is going away. Only rode it once, bought it with @ an hour on it from a rapper.
	1

11-20-2022, 09:41 AM	#13
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,282	The engine has the potential for making more torque and hp. If I can find the time this Winter, I will work on the head. I got a bit set for the Dremel to do the porting. It has been sitting there for 6 months! I have also been looking for a compatible headpipe with a resonator (and no cat). They make them for the CG clones (ZS167FMM). I don't think these will fit the ZS172 clones. Megadan and many others have install 4 degree (or other) timing advance key as well. KTM and Husqvarna engines are already significantly advanced, and lower advance keys are available for them (1 degree, 1.5 degree, etc). I have a timing light somewhere. I'd like to shoot the timing on the Temp X and find out what the OEM advance is. I had installed a dyna2000 on my first gen bandit so I could select advance settings. This kind of setup would be much easier than changing timing keys to explore the effect of advancing timing. I would like to use timing advance, but no more than needed to get a boost in power to complement the porting/exhaust mods. A new carb might make sense at some point as well, but the OEM smoothbore Youall has been adequate for the unmodified engine. Finally, you can buy the 5speed and 6speed versions of this ZS172 for about $500. Maybe the best approach is to swap in a new stock engine and get it working, then begin all of the modification on the partially broken in, proven good engine I got with the bike. Or just modify the virgin new engine. Not sure which approach would be best.
	1