hot wires?

[china_bike_fan]

Hey I read about these on another forum does anyone here have any experience with them? Is this one of those gimmick things or are they for real?

http://www.lifan-moto-forum.com/YaBB.pl?num=1220653107

[DDG1976]

They are for real, and so will the hole in your piston be. I saw a piston the other day that had been ran with these wires, you could tell by the hole in it which way the plug was indexed.

[china_bike_fan]

I investigated it thouroughly and bought one at the lifanmoto website
as long as you dont run a lean condition or a plug hotter than normal there shouldnt be any problem. there is a bunch of guys over there raving about hot wires I got a air filter and bunch of jets and gonna get on of those exhausts. i cant wait for them to get in! i'll let you guys know how they work.

[SpeedSouth]

I'm not a member at that other site, so I couldn't see any of the stuff attached in that thread. I don't know if it was pictures, links to other sites or documents of some sort.

I could (and will eventually) search for this "hotwire" on my own, but for now...color me skeptical.

It's hard to simply accept a "seat of the pants", "I just did this mod and hope I didn't waste my time and money" review. But, I guess a before and after dyno run is too much to expect.


I hope it works well for you. It would be great if you could provide more details...like maybe some pictures the members of THIS site can see. :)

[Jim]

It's hard to simply accept a "seat of the pants", "I just did this mod and hope I didn't waste my time and money" review. But, I guess a before and after dyno run is too much to expect.

Actually... I don't think so... Eric (one of the mods), is pretty handy at getting performance data and has had is bike on the dyno more then a couple of times... He may post up some stuff about the hotwires, I believe he just recently got one on his bike.

[Jaime]

Who ever gets those Nology Hotwires keep us posted on the results of the mod. I have been researching them and have ran across some stuff that make sense concerning these hotwires.

This is what I found:

“CAPACITOR” EFFECT WIRES with grounded metal braiding over jacket

The most notable of exaggerated claims for ignition wires are made by Nology, a recent manufacturer of ignition wires promoted as “the only spark plug wires with built-in capacitor.” Nology’s “HotWires” (called “Plasma Leads” in the UK) consist of unsuppressed solid metal or spiral conductor ignition wires over which braided metal sleeves are partially fitted. The braided metal sleeves are grounded via straps formed from part of the braiding. Insulating covers are fitted over the braided metal sleeves. These wires are well constructed. For whatever reason, Nology specifies that non-resistor spark plugs need to be used with their “HotWires.” In a demonstration, the use of resistor plugs nullifies the visual effect of the brighter spark.

Ignition wires with grounded braided metal sleeves over the cable have come and gone all over the world for (at least) the last 30 years, and similar wires were used over 20 years ago by a few car makers to solve cross-firing problems on early fuel injected engines and RFI problems on fiberglass bodied cars — only to find other problems were created. The recent Circle Track Magazine (USA, May, 1996 issue) test showed Nology “HotWires” produced no additional horsepower (the test actually showed a 10 horsepower decrease when compared to stock carbon conductor wires).

The perceived effect a brighter spark, conducted by an ignition wire, encased or partially encased in a braided metal sleeve (shield) grounded to the engine, jumping across a huge free-air gap (which bears no relationship to the spark needed to fire the variable air/fuel mixture under pressure in a combustion chamber) is continually being re-discovered and cleverly demonstrated by marketers who convince themselves there’s monetary value in such a bright spark, and all sorts of wild, completely un-provable claims are made for this phenomena.

Like many in the past, Nology cleverly demonstrates a brighter free-air spark containing useless flash-over created by the crude “capacitor” (effect) of this style of wire. In reality, the bright spark has no more useful energy to fire a variable compressed air/fuel mixture than the clean spark you would see in a similar demonstration using any good carbon conductor wire. What is happening in such a demonstration is the coil output is being unnecessarily boosted to additionally supply spark energy that is induced (and wasted) into the grounded braided metal sleeve around the ignition wire’s jacket. To test the validity of this statement, ask the demonstrator to disconnect the ground strap and observe just how much energy is sparking to ground.

Claims by Nology of their “HotWires” creating sparks that are “300 times more powerful,” reaching temperatures of “100,000 to 150,000 degrees F” (more than enough to melt spark plug electrodes), spark durations of “4 billionths of a second” (spark duration is controlled by the ignition system itself) and currents of “1,000 amperes” magically evolving in “capacitors” allegedly “built-in” to the ignition wires are as ridiculous as the data and the depiction of sparks in photographs used in advertising material and the price asked for these wires! Most stock ignition primaries are regulated to 6 amperes and the most powerful race ignition to no more than 40 amperes at 12,000 RPM.

It is common knowledge amongst automotive electrical engineers that it is unwise to use ignition wires fitted with grounded braided metal sleeves fitted over ignition cable jackets on an automobile engine. This type of ignition wires forces its cable jackets to become an unsuitable dielectric for a crude capacitor (effect) between the conductor and the braided metal sleeves. While the wires function normally when first fitted, the cable jackets soon break down as a dielectric, and progressively more spark energy is induced from the conductors (though the cable jackets) into the grounded metal sleeves, causing the ignition coil to unnecessarily output more energy to fire both the spark plug gaps and the additional energy lost via the braided metal sleeves. Often this situation leads to ignition coil and control unit overload failures. It should be noted that it is dangerous to use these wires if not grounded to the engine, as the grounding straps will be alive with thousands of volts wanting to ground-out to anything (or body) nearby.

Unless you are prepared to accept poorly suppressed ignition wires that fail sooner than any other type of ignition wires and stretch your ignition system to the limit, and have an engine with no electronic management system and/or exhaust emission controls, it’s best not to be influenced by the exaggerated claims, and some vested-interest journalists’, resellers’ and installers’ perception an engine has more power after Nology wires are fitted. Often, after replacing deteriorated wires, any new ignition wires make an engine run better

[china_bike_fan]

i saw that same story when i googled hot wires. there were far more positive stories and that was the only negative article i read. i tend to listen more to people that actually use a item but i will find out myself for sure. mine will be here in a few days

anybody know of any other items like this that may boost power?

[Qingdao]

I still don't see the problem with getting the old fashioned bigger wire. Its not like you are going to see GINORMUSS power gains from a compasiter.

Besides internal combustion engines are made to BURN FUEL and AIR not create giant sparks. You want power improve air movement through the engine itself and or force air in it.

[hondax]

I don't know if these wires will mess up carb motors, but they sure messed with the electronics in FI cars. I use to have a 600+ hp Integra and only used Magnecor wires. Its right that when you put a positive and negative wire together you get a bigger spark then a spark trying to jump a gap. But what else happens when you put positive and negative together-blow ups and other things which are a no-no. Just google Nology Hotwires and you will get all the horror stories. In my experience they sucked in FI cars, I had a friend who was dead set on using hotwires in his street/drag car and he always experienced erratic idle and other electrical gremlins. We never really got to the source of the problem, until I came online and saw other ppl with the same problems. So we decided to which his wires with something else, magically all his problems went away with new plug wires.

[SpeedSouth]

Actually... I don't think so... Eric (one of the mods), is pretty handy at getting performance data and has had is bike on the dyno more then a couple of times... He may post up some stuff about the hotwires, I believe he just recently got one on his bike.

That would be great! :)
I'm sure quite a few people would find it interesting and informative.

[china_bike_fan]

got mine in today! instant difference motorcycle starts easier with no having to choke takes off faster and feels like more power. i dont care what anyone says about it not working on their cars it works great on my motorcycle. im a believer! now i just need to get my filter and jet mods done then ill be in TMS heaven

[CoolWhip2Go]

Glad you like the HotWires. I also wrote a review on the Nology Silver spark plugs. Please take a look at it here: http://www.lifan-moto-forum.com/YaBB.pl?num=1222731907

There have been a lot of negative info in regards to the Nology HotWires, however, let's take into account that if these wires did not work, Nology would not have a limited lifetime warranty on these.

As for those who experienced problems with them in their cars, well, let's take into account that cars have tons of electronics in them versus a 200cc sport bike. And to use non resistor plugs, as recommended, might and can cause interference with electrical equipment on a car.

There are others on LM's site that have the HotWires. Ask them how they like it...

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk290/dchan4u/DSC00305.jpg

[CoolWhip2Go]

I still don't see the problem with getting the old fashioned bigger wire. Its not like you are going to see GINORMUSS power gains from a compasiter.

Besides internal combustion engines are made to BURN FUEL and AIR not create giant sparks. You want power improve air movement through the engine itself and or force air in it.

A bigger wire means nothing if there is resistance. Let's put it this way, if you turn the gas stove on low versus high, it'll take longer to boil the water. Flame is a flame right??

I know it's hard to believe, but I can assure you that there is a difference ever since I put the HotWires in. 8)

[hondax]

Don't you guys think that maybe it was just the low quality china spark plug wires and imitation china NGK spark plugs that made these bike feel sluggish. Once you put better new quality wires and plugs in, of course your butt dyno is going to feel the difference. Its just like a tune up in a car, you will feel a difference after a tune up, because of the new items. I remember a company named Splitfire with its claims, now where is that company, its still here but pretty much faded away. Nology is also in the same boat, they were huge when they first came out, but now they are just faded in the background.

[CoolWhip2Go]

Don't you guys think that maybe it was just the low quality china spark plug wires and imitation china NGK spark plugs that made these bike feel sluggish. Once you put better new quality wires and plugs in, of course your butt dyno is going to feel the difference. Its just like a tune up in a car, you will feel a difference after a tune up, because of the new items. I remember a company named Splitfire with its claims, now where is that company, its still here but pretty much faded away. Nology is also in the same boat, they were huge when they first came out, but now they are just faded in the background.

Well, of course I had changed out the original Torch plug with a geniune NGK right off the get go. Of course a "tune up" is going to make things run better, but to actually feel a difference in performance/acceleration is totally different than running smoother.

Until you actually try it yourself, it's not fair to say this or that. I'm not forcing anyone to buy anything, I'm just telling you my personal experience with using the mentioned products and it works great. There are others over at LM who have followed in my footsteps and they too report great results. Again, don't knock it till you try it.

Ride safe.

[jayg]

A friend of mine blew a hole in his piston with this.

[Jaime]

On a china Bike?

[CoolWhip2Go]

A friend of mine blew a hole in his piston with this.
On a motorcycle???? There are many factors to take into account before accusing the HotWires as being the culprit. Two things are going to cause this to happen, one is a plug that was too hot and a LEAN condition.

[SpeedSouth]

There have been a lot of negative info in regards to the Nology HotWires, however, let's take into account that if these wires did not work, Nology would not have a limited lifetime warranty on these.

I'm sorry, but that is just flawed logic. A company will choose to offer a warranty (even a "limited lifetime") for a variety of reasons, the very least of which may be based on the claims made by said company.

Watch any infomercial. They claim to grow hair (among other things), reduce weight, tighten your abs, increase fuel mileage and a great number of other things. Most of which, simply aren't true.

Now, I haven't tested this product, and likely never will, so I will refrain from claiming it will or won't work. I remain skeptical, but willing to accept any facts provided.

I would also like to point out, however, that I am firmly in the camp of: If I want more power, I'll get a bigger bike.

[CoolWhip2Go]

There have been a lot of negative info in regards to the Nology HotWires, however, let's take into account that if these wires did not work, Nology would not have a limited lifetime warranty on these.

I'm sorry, but that is just flawed logic. A company will choose to offer a warranty (even a "limited lifetime") for a variety of reasons, the very least of which may be based on the claims made by said company.

Watch any infomercial. They claim to grow hair (among other things), reduce weight, tighten your abs, increase fuel mileage and a great number of other things. Most of which, simply aren't true.

Now, I haven't tested this product, and likely never will, so I will refrain from claiming it will or won't work. I remain skeptical, but willing to accept any facts provided.

I would also like to point out, however, that I am firmly in the camp of: If I want more power, I'll get a bigger bike.

I agree with you. I was just trying to explain that they do stand behind their product.

Speaking of informercial, I love the one where Ron Popeil sprays bald spots with what appears to be "hair paint" to make it look like you have hair! :lol:

Back to the subject.... I am one of the most skeptical people in the world, so i totally understand where you're coming from, however, having installed the items I'm recommending in my bike, i noticed a difference in performance, acceleration, and the way the engine runs which is why I'm trying to share my findings with others. These minor, inexpensive upgrades which totals around $60 or so, is well worth it IMO for a more responsive bike which in turn makes it more fun to ride.

Of course, in my review of the products on LifanMoto, you will see that I'm a realistic person and flat out tell you that it's not going to turn your 200cc engine into a 500cc Ninja, however, it does make your bike a lot more fun to ride due to how responsive it becomes with those upgrades.

[CoolWhip2Go]

I'm not a member at that other site, so I couldn't see any of the stuff attached in that thread. I don't know if it was pictures, links to other sites or documents of some sort.

I could (and will eventually) search for this "hotwire" on my own, but for now...color me skeptical.

It's hard to simply accept a "seat of the pants", "I just did this mod and hope I didn't waste my time and money" review. But, I guess a before and after dyno run is too much to expect.


I hope it works well for you. It would be great if you could provide more details...like maybe some pictures the members of THIS site can see. :)

I don't know how to upload a PDF of "HotRod Bikes" article on the Nology HotWires, but here's a snippet of their review. If you'd like a copy of the article, please PM me your email address and I will be happy to email it to you. The rest are collective quotes from magazines (bold) that had write ups on the Nology HotWires.

Hot Rod Bikes

"With peak power the best yet at 52.3 hp. More importantly, average power is a whopping 47.1 horsepower, compared to stock at 40.9 horsepower."

Dirt Bike

"Nology HotWires are one of the least expensive parts of any kind that make a performance difference you can feel."

American Iron Magazine

"The results were amazing. Simply by replacing the spark plug wires our maximum horsepower climbed 11% from 47.0 to 52.3, and the torque jumped 8% from 58.8 ft-lb to 63.6."

Thunder Alley

"Many riders I talked to are skeptical when you tell them they can get horsepower increases from something as mundane as plug wires. But the Nology HotWires do exactly that."

[katoranger]

Not advocating either way, but if it is true that American Iron gain 11 percent in horsepower that would take most of our china 200s up 1.76 hp.

16hp to 17.76hp.

That would be noticable on a butt dyno.

I still need more hard data to be sold. $50 is alot to spend on my bike. Buys alot of gas.

Allen

[CoolWhip2Go]

Not advocating either way, but if it is true that American Iron gain 11 percent in horsepower that would take most of our china 200s up 1.76 hp.

16hp to 17.76hp.

That would be noticable on a butt dyno.

I still need more hard data to be sold. $50 is alot to spend on my bike. Buys alot of gas.

Allen

What!!!? Allen, that 1.76HP increase is like giving it a shot of NOS!!! LOL I'm just kidding guys!!!! :lol:

What I'm saying is that the engine runs better. You're right, $50 is a lot to spend these days with the way the economy is. I see a lot of people buying these $100 - $300 exhaust cans for their bike and all they get out of that is a nicer sounding bike with some nice exhaust "bling" and small performance gains.

$60 +/- for a plug & wire is really nothing if you take into account the benefits of having better combustion, a cleaner chamber, cleaner exhaust, cleaner plugs, and a smoother, more responsive engine don't you think??

I mean I spend over a $120 to give my car a "tune up"; replacing cap, rotor, plugs, air filter and what do I gain?? Nothing other than a smoother running car. So you can consider the HotWires & Silver plug as a sort of "tune up" for the bike, but with more positive results than just a smoother running engine. Just my take anyways.

To make it very clear. I respect everyone's opinion on this discussion. 8)

[katoranger]

Just saying that I really don't need it, but that I am sure it does make it a difference. Just not sure if I need one.

Allen

[Qingdao]

...$60 +/- for a plug & wire is really nothing...

Just fyi a box of 8.5 Accels from Advance cost $29, and you have enough wire left over for your whole garage... including your lawn mower and O/B motor.

[knothead]

Here's an idea for plug wires that has stood the test of time. Hang around anyone who builds drag motors and you'll see them doing this.

Get rid of the resistance in the plugs and wires.
Many bikes have a 5K ohm resistor built into the plug wire cap. Take it out an insert a steel rod in it's place or just replace the cap with a non resistor version. If the wires are resistor wires, ditch them for solid copper. You will notice a bit of a difference even on a Chinese 200.
What happens is the resistance reduces the spark intensity a little and stretches out it's duration. Take the resistance away and the spark becomes very short but very hot (sound familiar? it should and I'm getting to that part).
The down side to non resistor wires is the radio noise. You can hear it over the radio.. but the big problem is it's interference with electronic circuits... like CDI units.
The upside it that it works and is VERY cheap to do.

There are two ways around the downside.

1. add a small amount of resistance back to the wire. 1K ohm will work just fine on most stock ignitions.

2. Add a capacitor and shielding to the wire. Sound familiar? The reason you don't see this approach very often is due to it's cost and the fact that capacitors won't hold up for very long when dealing with the voltages involved (+40,000 volts...there are caps that will hold up, but they are BIG and very expensive). Caps work by having thin layers of a conductive material spaced out wit a semi-nonconductive material. They are delicate, often using an electrolytic fluid inside the housing. If the layers of material break down or the electrolyte leaks out, the capacitor is toast. ... This is the big complaint leveled against the Nology wires, they break down quickly and no longer work.

So if you're bound to mess with plug wires, shop around and find a low/no resistance cap. It'll only cost you about $4 US and you should see the same changes that the $45 Nology wires give and a good deal more reliability.

[VinceDrake]

Good post Mr KnotHead!

The following is not intended to be controversial or agrumentative, Apologies to those who may be angered....

Three points I wanted to bring up about Ignition Systems in general:

a) Capacitors take time to charge. Just like a battery, a capacitor/condensor takes a ceratin amount of time to charge, the coil fires at the same time, unless you advance your timing, mechanically or electronically, Therefore Capacitor in the secondary Ignition system = Retarded igntion timing! Will result in a somewhat smoother idle and low speed operation, but lower overall horse power.

b) Higher *potential* spark voltage means nothing. You can put a MSD super coil on your chine bike fairly easily. The MSD coil *Can* produce up to 60,000 Volts. Will your china bike run at 60,000V with the coil installed? No! The ignition coil only discharges at the voltage required to travel the ignition wire, and jump the gap at the spark plug. Therefore, if you have a 20,000V stock coil, and a .025" gap, it will run about 12,000V. With a 60,000V coil and .025" gap, it will run about 12,000V.

c) Higher *actual* spark voltage means nothing. You can increase your plug gap, and increase your spark Voltage Dramatically. Larger Gap=Higher Voltage. Weather or not the stock coil can jump that gap at maximum load and RPM is another matter entirely. *BUT* Larger Gap=Hotter plug, Hotter Head *and* Somewhat retarded ignition timing.

That being said, if your a/f mixture lights at 12,000V, it's going to light at 40,000V. The intensity of the spark will make an engine easier starting, and less prone to misfiring, but Does absolutely nothing for absolute Horsepower!

To break it down to historic data, and tuner tricks from the days of old:

In the old days, tuners all had Accel or MSD Super coils, perhaps an entire distributor on their modified Chevys, Fords, etc. But the engine/Carby was modified! The MSD distributors were much easier to modify advance than stock, and the very wet mixtures needed Required higher spark voltages to run reliably, especially when you add a lumpy cam to the mix. Also, Most stock disty's of the day Gagged completely at 6,000rpms, right where the engine was nearing it's modified horsepower peak. Modified ignition voltage on a stock engine did nothing. Just added some shiny stuff to look at when you opened the hood.

To Sum Up:

Ignition voltage means very little. Adding resistance *or* capacitance to the secondary ignition circuit does not increase horsepower. Reliability can increase slightly. What improves ignition systems dramatically is Spark on time, every time i.e. the advance curve must match the engine's needs. Something I think is woefully lacking on china-bikes...

YMMV, IMHO, Professional Driver on a closed course, do not try this at home, etc.

--Vince

[Qingdao]

I was thinking about this today and it hit me like a bag of oranges to the groin.

No more energy from combustion can be obtained by producing more spark.

Here is why. Highschool chemistry tells us that there are exothermic reactions (like internal combustion). All reactions require activation energy to start. The change in obtained energy is not affected by the activation energy.

However, the time in which the reaction takes place can change. Meaning a bad coil, plug, wire, CDI ect... could make the reaction take longer or not at all.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm243/jdallis33026/somthing.jpg

The point here is that ignition is essential to making an engine run proper; however, it is not going to change the amount of power from an engine.

To change the power you must increase the amount of reactions (increase volume of the chamber or presurize the gasses in the chamber), or make the flow of the reactants and products faster (by smothing the ducting in which it flows).

In redneck speech (which I most certainly am and I AM PROUD TO BE). If you want more power get more displacement aka bigger bike.

[Oklahoma_Outlaw]

Well I waited a month for this discussion to settle down before I thought to comment. Regardless of what technical data is presented, and web articles sponsored by competitors. Its the user of the product himself that provides the most expert evaluation of any product.

Its been two months since we started selling this product at the Lifan-Moto store. After selling two dozen sets I'm very pleased to announce that there have been ZERO negative reviews of the Nology Hot Wire. Every single user of the product has found it to increase performance including myself.

Here are some of the reviews by actual owners....

i installed mine as well tonight, and i am really impressed by want a single thicker wire can do to improve the bikes power. i highly recommend this!

got it all set up works great....... everyone should buy these if they have not............ best upgrade yet>>>>

it runs like it got additional 1 HP or something.. throttle responses slightly quicker and RPM goes up a bit quicker as well. Idles much better and i love it!

Well I finally installed my Hotwire tonight. I could definitely feel the difference. The throttle response and acceleration was a big improvement! I'm going to feel much more confident in traffic when you need a little extra to navigate the idiots talking on their cell phones and doing their makeup in the mirror or to get around the guy doing exactly 5mph under the speed limit.

+1 All I'm going to say is that my bike runs GREAT! I'm happy with my "Nologized" bike

WOW! I love this mod! the bike now starts first try with no sputtering, the acceleration has defiantly improved (i noticed around 55-65mph is where it really shines)

My brother and I have identical scooters. I weigh 20 pounds more than him and can jump him off the line and pull away from his ass now. THANKS!!!!!!!!!

Got my Hot wire on today.Deff hits harder,throtle responce improved, Looks bad ass.I think after engine and carb up grades the hot wire will
really shine!!! For under 50.00 Deff. a good mod!!

So far, the HotWires is working great! Again, the throttle response is practically instant and the bike definitely accelerates faster. Not bad for just replacing the plug wire for under $50 don't you think?

Just wanted to follow up on this after a 20 mile ride to truly test out the HotWires. The acceleration from a dead stop is truly unbelievable. I'm not kidding you when I say it really makes the engine come to life (and NO, I don't work for NOLOGY )! There was strong pull through every gear and I didn't even have WOT.

Its not like adding another 100cc in displacement...but it was the throttle response and acceleration that got my attention. Seem to help the bike get more out of the powerband. So a big thumbs up from me.

I received my HotWires today and installed it. WOW!!!! The bike started with ease, idles really well, and throttle response was instant! Took the bike for a spin around the block; WOW! There was a noticable increase in how fast the bike responded and got up to speed. Acceleration was definitely much faster.



This post is not to inflame any subject but to share actual reviews by users like ourselves with similiar motorcycles. I felt that a delayed response on this would give all of us that own this product more than ample time to evaluate it. Yes I have the Nology Hot Wire installed on my own LF200iii. I do not have it in my truck, my wifes car or any other vehicle I own due to my own uncertainty of adverse reaction to electrical and or computer components in those vehicles. For our application on our China Bikes I have found this product to be safe to internal components while giving noticable performance gains.

The owners of this product have spoken. There has been a resounding chorus of positive experiences and testimonials from users just like you and myself. I encourage you to try this product and decide for yourself.

If I can help in any way or answer any questions please do not hesitate to contact me here or on the Lifan Moto Forum.

Thanks, Stan

[DDG1976]

When they start selling for around $9.99, I might try it.

[knothead]

When they start selling for around $9.99, I might try it.

EDIT: DOH! Same stuff I said in my last post in this thread.. no need to repeat it!