The CCW Tha Heist and my day with PIT Motors LTD

[gardo]

its pretty much the same post I did in MCM

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o252/drgnriderx/CCW%20Tha%20Heist/gardo6.jpg

I went down to PIT Motors LTD and met the guys who are bringing the Tha Heist to the States. They are located about 2hr drive for me, one way, and I ended up hanging out down there for 4 hrs. Brett and Al are good guys. Real gear heads.
They let me see the facility and take some pics of the place the bikes and the way they are shipped, I also was able to test drive the CCW Tha Heist.

I had the Bike out for a good 15 - 20 minutes to get a feel of the handling. The Bike has a great feel and a real nice pull to it. the seat was comfortable, let me tell you the roads in NJ pitted as hell. the handling was smooth and so was the gear shifts. It has a tight gear box so no false neutrals. The Rigid frame is very well constructed and the welds are clean and well done. The bike has all the legal tags (lol) and they are listed on the NJ approved manufactures list. What does this mean, I can title it in my State and its legit to be on the streets.

now in comparing the DF250RTB and the CCW Heist I can say the the handling felt better on the Heist. It may be due to the Heist engine being broken in but the Heist felt like it had better power and was able to stay in first for more than 5 seconds without screaming for mercy.

They knew the story of what had happened with Scooterdepot and the DR250RTB. And the fact that Scooterdepot asked me to ship back the DF250RTB Bobber due to it being an illegal street bike in NJ. One of the first things that Brett asked was did I bring the other bike down so they could ship it back for me, and he was serious. i had already shipped the other bike back the night before but thats a whole other story.

After a couple hours, a few cups of coffee and being allowed to play with the other bikes they had on site. i put a deposit down on the bike.

They were real understanding that I wanted to wait till I have my money returned from the other bike before paying for it straight out, but i still put the deposit down anyway.
They are taking care of all the PDI and all the other workup on the Bike and will start building it tomorrow. They even offered to drive it up to me themselves and asked me to come down and hang out whenever i want and go riding.

the Bike is worth every penny of the MSRP of $3195 USD I didnt even blink an eye and should have done this from the beginning.

If all goes the way it is supposed to I should have the bike by the 1st of April

here are some pics (http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o252/drgnriderx/CCW%20Tha%20Heist/) of me at the facility and on the Bike

[Weldangrind]

Thanks for the pics! 8)

I like that there is a kicker shaft on the engine, so you can install a kicker if you want to. The drag bars and 'Frisco style peanut tank are just right. They bobbed the rear fender on the test bike a little too far IMHO; I'd stop it right at the top of the tire.

I want your Guiness t-shirt.

[FastDoc]

Thta is a very cool bike! 8)

So, short sleeve weather in Joisey now? That's great. Where are you from? I grew up in Newark, went to college and medical school in New Brunswick/Piscataway, and spent my summers between Asbury and Bradley Beach. Mom lived in Brick. :)

[gardo]

fastDoc - It is a cool bike and yesterday was in the mid seventies. I'm in North Jersey outside the Meadowland in Clifton Passaic county boy most of my life.

Weldangrind - Cant Have it LoL, it was a limited run on those shirts like the Other i wore at a dropkick show I was at in NYC

it can be modified but you would need to move the pipe so that the kicker wont hit it and mod the mount. it can be done i have seen a few pics.

I'm thinking keeping it stock for the first month or two and find what i want to change.

The guys bike I was on did his work on the bike in 8hrs and for less than $50 USD

used a wet sand to take down the gloss on the rear fender and tank, then rattle canned it. Cut the rear fender with a 3 inch cutoff wheel

that is the stock pipe cut, gutted, and painted in a hiTemp paint then attached the frame mount tag holder

[culcune]

Cool bike! That photo should be used instead of those pro ones on the thread on MCM!

Congrats on the new bike, and I am sure it will be much smoother ownership (registration) for you... :lol:

[Barnone]

Gardo,
Nice photos. I can see more of the bike in your photos than the CCW ones.

I wonder how many teeth are in the Heist's rear sprocket.It's much smaller than the Dang Fong's rear sprocket which might explain why you said you could run longer in 1st gear.
.

[gardo]

Gardo,
Nice photos. I can see more of the bike in your photos than the CCW ones.

I wonder how many teeth are in the Heist's rear sprocket.It's much smaller than the Dang Fong's rear sprocket which might explain why you said you could run longer in 1st gear.
.

I can find out

[Barnone]

Yes, the front and rear sprocket size of the Heist would be nice to know since the DF and Heist have the same engine. weight and wheel/tire size..

The Dang Fong's sprocket front and rear is 13/40. I'm going to try a 14 first since it is easier to change and a larger sprocket should be easier on the chain.

These push rod engines appear to have good low end torque so a higher ratio might be fine.

[gardo]

Yes, the front and rear sprocket size of the Heist would be nice to know since the DF and Heist have the same engine. weight and wheel/tire size..

The Dang Fong's sprocket front and rear is 13/40. I'm going to try a 14 first since it is easier to change and a larger sprocket should be easier on the chain.

These push rod engines appear to have good low end torque so a higher ratio might be fine.

I will call them up on Monday and check it out cause if it is a 13/40 on the Heist i def want that changed up they may be able to suggest something

[gardo]

Yes, the front and rear sprocket size of the Heist would be nice to know since the DF and Heist have the same engine. weight and wheel/tire size..

The Dang Fong's sprocket front and rear is 13/40. I'm going to try a 14 first since it is easier to change and a larger sprocket should be easier on the chain.

These push rod engines appear to have good low end torque so a higher ratio might be fine.

I will call them up on Monday and check it out cause if it is a 13/40 on the Heist i def want that changed up they may be able to suggest something

ok guys the Heist has a 15T front sprocket and a 41T rear sprocket check out this link PIT sent me that gives a great breakdown on the ratios
Motorcycle Sprocket Ratio Calculator (http://www.qddev.com/demos/sprockets/sprocketratios2.shtml)

[Weldangrind]

JT Sprockets also has a chart, which is helpful for at-a-glance comparisons: http://www.jtsprockets.com/fileadmin/files/jtgearratio.pdf

[Barnone]

JT Sprockets also has a chart, which is helpful for at-a-glance comparisons: http://www.jtsprockets.com/fileadmin/files/jtgearratio.pdf

I wonder if they are running a 420 chain on the Heist instead of the 520 like the Dang Fong because the rear sprocket on the Heist looks much smaller in diameter and looks to me that no way will a 520 15 tooth front sprocket will fit on the 167FMM engine.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x85/Skeekah/tha20heist20three20quarter20view20w.jpg
Heist

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x85/Skeekah/bobberchopperblack.jpg
DF

[katoranger]

Its probably 428. 15/41 sounds about right for that size chain on a street application.

[RageHardIntoTheBendies]

yea I'm running a 15-42 - 428 chain on my 167fmm (Saga)

[gardo]

ok Stupid question what is the # of the chain is that the links or size or both?

[Barnone]

The number describes the dimensions of the pitch,roller diameter, and roller width.

Everything you need to know about chains.
http://www.gizmology.net/sprockets.htm

Usually the higher the number the stronger the chain assuming they are built to the same standards.

[gardo]

The number describes the dimensions of the pitch,roller diameter, and roller width.

Everything you need to know about chains.
http://www.gizmology.net/sprockets.htm

Usually the higher the number the stronger the chain assuming they are built to the same standards.

Vince, you know you are like my new hero Right. Dude all the info and advice has been great thank you

[Weldangrind]

We're blessed by a few seasoned guys here that have what I call tribal knowledge; Barnone, Reveeen and Jape immediately come to mind. I appreciate them, and I'm a great believer in stealing knowledge. :lol:

[katoranger]

We're blessed by a few seasoned guys here that have what I call tribal knowledge; Barnone, Reveeen and Jape immediately come to mind. I appreciate them, and I'm a great believer in stealing knowledge. :lol:

They have a vast knowledge and probably saved others alot of expense and time.

[Barnone]

Thanks but is that a nice way of saying we are old farts? I been fooling with motorcycles for 50 years but still learn something new everyday.

I put a 33 tooth rear sprocket on the bobber today in place of the 45 tooth. Nice to be able to go across an intersection without having to shift out of first.

I'll give it a good run tomorrow out to the ranch. My wife was out there today and noticed some buzzards were hanging around like something was dead.

EDIT the stock rear sprocket on the DF is 45 teeth not 40 like we thought.

[katoranger]

Wise old men. They may be grumpy too.

[JTCAndrew]

I agree Barnone was super helpful with his XF Thread - I learned alot about the bike thru him and things he had tried. Unfortunately I made my own mistakes along the way but the knowlege he provided is priceless.

Thanks Vince! :D

[Weldangrind]

Thanks but is that a nice way of saying we are old farts? I been fooling with motorcycles for 50 years but still learn something new everyday.

I put a 33 tooth rear sprocket on the bobber today in place of the 40 tooth. Might be too much of a jump but it's only 8% more than the stock Heist ratio. Nice to be able to go across an intersection without having to shift out of first.

I'll give it a good run tomorrow out to the ranch. My wife was out there today and noticed some buzzards were hanging around like something was dead.

All kidding aside, when I use the term "tribal knowledge", I do so with genuine respect. It's a term that was coined by David Freiburger of Hot Rod magazine, and it refers to the guys who have the mileage and skills that are becoming so rare today. Freiburger makes a point of interviewing older gentlemen who are willing to share skills and wisdom, and I appreciate it.

I've learned a considerable amount from you, Reveeen and Jape in a short time, and not just about motorcycling. Yet another reason why I like hanging around this shop. :D

Please tell us how the new sprocket ratio affects top end. I'm curious to learn if there's enough power / torque to carry the bike at that ratio.

[Barnone]

I think I am really trying to reduce the cruising speed RPM instead of increasing the top speed. Getting ready to head out to see what died at the ranch. Hope it not another first calf heifer.

[Barnone]

False alarm on the dead cow. No buzzards were flying around.
Smaller rear sprocket was a great improvement.

[katoranger]

With FL mostly flat it can probably pull that tall gear. I was running a 17/42 on my lifan in North GA. It was almost too tall for starting on the hills.

[Barnone]

Yeah, when I get back to the great riding in the mountains on Western North Carolina, I might have to add a few teeth to the back sprocket.

[culcune]

CCW better watch out; here is the competition...

http://californiascooterco.com/scooters.html

[gardo]

CCW better watch out; here is the competition...

http://californiascooterco.com/scooters.html

Its not really competition its a whole different beast all together.

My3yr old wants the pink one

[Weldangrind]

False alarm on the dead cow. No buzzards were flying around.
Smaller rear sprocket was a great improvement.

Good news on the cow. :D

Did you have a chance to wind out the new sprocket combo? Was there a top speed difference?

[gardo]

Spoke to the Guys down in PIT Motors LTD and they will be doing some live load testing cause I was thinking of taking the 15/42 to a 15/38

Will keep you guys posted

[Barnone]

Gardo,
That 15/38 would be the same as my 13/33 which might be a little high for a young guy like you. Anyway it's easy enough to change the rear sprocket with the right o-ring pliers.

Be nice to see the dyno power curve from PIT. I might take mine over to my dyno guy.

[gardo]

Barnone - I dont understand your meaning of "too high" could you explain please

thx

[RageHardIntoTheBendies]

I'm running 15-42 on my 167fmm and it will stay pinned at 8k rpm+ on all but the steepest hill. I'm going to a 16-42 and I'm sure it will pull it fine as this motor is all low end. This is on a an upright dualsport so I'm sure you should be fine.

[Weldangrind]

Barnone - I dont understand your meaning of "too high" could you explain please

thx

Too high refers to a numerically low gear ratio (I know, it sounds confusing). See this chart: http://www.jtsprockets.com/fileadmin/files/jtgearratio.pdf

A 15/42 combo is a 2.80:1 ratio, and a 15/38 combo is a 2.53:1 ratio. The 2.53:1 ratio is higher (which is lower numerically), and that translates to more top end speed and less low end acceleration. The reverse is true for the 2.80:1 ratio.

[Barnone]

W&G,
Good explain as Darrell Waltrip 0f NASCAR fame says.

[Barnone]

I'm running 15-42 on my 167fmm and it will stay pinned at 8k rpm+ on all but the steepest hill. I'm going to a 16-42 and I'm sure it will pull it fine as this motor is all low end. This is on a an upright dualsport so I'm sure you should be fine.
Rage,
Thanks for the numbers and confirmation of my suspected low end power of the 167FMM engine. At least that how it feels to my butt dyno.

[RageHardIntoTheBendies]

Yea makes me wish there were hotter cams for this engine as I'm sure
there would be a pony or 2 to be had there.

[gardo]

Thanks WG that makes a bit more sense. i figure that i rode a Heist with the stock 15/42 I will play with it stock for now and play with the numbers some with the guys from PIT

[katoranger]

Easy thing to try would be to swap a 16 or 17 sprocket on the front.

[Weldangrind]

Yea makes me wish there were hotter cams for this engine as I'm sure
there would be a pony or 2 to be had there.

You can always use a regrinding service. Colt and Shadbolt are in the Lower Mainland. China cams must be available for cheap, so I'd buy a new one and hand that to the grinder.