hydraulic clutch lever questions

[gman4dx266]

hey guy and girls, this is my first post and I have just bought my first chinese bike a flywing mx 150 Dirt MX. it needed some work so I got it cheap. I have been fighting the clutch for some time now. it needed a clutch cable so I installed one. I found myself needing to use both hands to pull the clutch in, like the springs in the basket came off a monster truck! it would work find just super hard. I broke down and purchased one of those hydraulic clutch assemblies you see on ebay and other places and it finally came in the mail. it came to me completely locked up with foamy brake fluid in it. I flushed out the lines and all the small holes and ports and even what I guess you'd call the slave cylinder/lower unit and refilled with fresh dot4. now I need to know how in the world you can bleed this thing. I messed with it for about two hours yesterday and got it to work about 4 pulls while holding in my hand and it quits again. all the fittings are tight and not leaking so I am puzzled! if anyone can help id appreciate it. Im not opposed to going back to a cable either if there's a way to take the spring tension down

[ejcycles]

Hi gman4dx266

First welcome to China Riders.

The clutch on that FlyWing 150 should be easy as butter to pull the lever in on. If it's as difficult to pull in as you say there is something wrong with it internally. You may need to remove the right engine cover & check out the clutch parts.

[gman4dx266]

EJ, Thanks for the reply! I have had the cover off numerous times and have even installed and reinstalled the 4 return springs in the carrier basket many times as well. I bought the bike used and SEEMED bound up when i bought it. I finally snapped vice grips on the clutch arm where the clutch cable slips through and i am able to move it that way with the leverage of the pliers but other than that it is very tough. The clutch DOES work though and works very well, bites like a snapping turtle when popped. I put it back together with two of the 4 springs at one point and it made it more bearable, but I did not run it like that because I know (from building auto transmissions) that you will get an uneven apply if you have a small number of springs or an uneven number of them. I have inspected and disassembled everything under that right hand clutch cover. It amazes me that that the little black peg that pushes in the center of the basket can take that force. My next step was to go to the hardware store and find some springs the same length but with less of a compression resistance. I test fitted the hydraulic assembly today and it DOES pull the arm in with the amount of effort Ive felt on other bikes with cable clutches. I only need to modify the cable holding bracket next to the clutch arm to bring the cable end closer. Any other ideas why it would be such a stiff clutch. It almost feels like an automotive manual/non-hydraulic clutch in an older car. lol

It's worth noting I guess, that when i got it, it would only shift 1st-neutral- and second. nothing higher and sometimes wouldnt shift back down. I fixed that shift shaft the first time i went inside the right cover; no problems since and kicks fine when riding.

[Weldangrind]

Welcome!

Man, that's a head scratcher. It's almost like the wrong springs were installed in the basket. Have you considered buying another basket assembly on eBay?

[gman4dx266]

Is there any way to tell if the right springs are in the basket? When i took them out they felt almost like an engine valve spring in compression resistance. Ive never been inside any other clutch-driven small engines to compare my findings, but I have ridden many others to know what the operation feels like.

Let me ask this: If I go with similar springs (size wise) but weaker, I know I run the risk of clutch slippage under wide open or heavy throttle. Is it a good idea to try this and change back if i notice slip?

WeldanGrind: I have looked at other clutch assemblies but I cannot find one like I have. The one I have has 4 bolts/studs and 4 springs. I dont know what to search for. Whats more, I found a site (a .ca canada site I THINK) about 3 months ago when i got this bike, that had diagrams and everything of my engine/transmission. I apparently neglected to bookmark it. Would any of yall have a site with exploded views of the engine and transmission? They are definitely helpful!

EDIT: I also would like to stress that the bike DOES clutch and DOES clutch completely and completely release as well, albeit hard to do so. No noises/grinds/rattles or bind ups. Because of that I wouldnt think I would have to buy a clutch basket/assembly. Definitely a headscratcher haha

[Weldangrind]

Well, if everything else is normal, then perhaps aftermarket springs are a good solution. I'm not familiar with your bike (some pics would be a benefit), so I only presume that it's a Honda clone. Maybe you can find XR200R springs on eBay that would be correct.

[gman4dx266]

It is a SPITTING Image of that XR200R! down to the exhaust heat shield!

Here is my bike (not MY, but the same thing)


Here is my clutch basket, just stumbled upon to this- not the same engine but LOOKS like my clutch assembly.

[ejcycles]

Hi gman4dx266

It does sound like someone may have replaced the clutch parts prior to you getting the bike. I put new clutch parts in a Lifan LF200GY-5 {Fiber discs, steel plates & springs} all Barnett. The springs for a XR200 in that bike are really tight/strong, and yes the clutch lever was a little difficult to pull in, but not as bad as the one on yours you describe. I would suggest putting in a set of springs for an XR200 from EBC. They will operate good and will not be as tight.

[gman4dx266]

I decided to try my luck with my hydraulic assembly. I finally got the thing bled out and working. I had to ghetto rig the pulling cable part because of the length being a little bit short- A heavy guage cotter pin and a nut fixed that problem to get the right amount of pull with no clutch drag.




The hydraulic solution is a MUST with a clutch that stiff! It minimized the effort needed by about 70 or 75% if I had to guess and compare. Unbelievable! I highly recommend these to anyone with a stiff clutch or just anyone generally wanting a more linear feel and apply to their regular clutch. Beware though, these things are made cheaply even though they are CNC'd. I had to replace 3 of the o-rings right out of the box and flush out the DOT4 fluid that came with it, clean out the sludge (maybe mine was returned by someone?) and refill with fresh fluid.

Again, this is what I purchased.

[Weldangrind]

Ghetto rig; that's awesome!

Can you fab a new mounting bracket that brings the cylinder closer to the clutch lever? The existing bracket should be retained with one bolt.

[gman4dx266]

WeldanGrind, That was my first plan, to modify the holding bracket. It does indeed have one 8mm headed bolt holding it to the engine case. I was going to cut some off of the front side of it to bring the puller rod closer but didnt have any cut off wheels for my cutter that day. I believe my cotter pin should hold though, as it is not one of those cheapo ones that bends super easy and would let go during service. I am thrilled still at how well that hydraulic deal works for me. I rode it around the yard for like 15-20 min just testing it out. The cops that patrol my subdivision are, in nice terms, prime examples of male genetalia, so I wouldnt dare ride it around the block for fear of a 500$ ticket. I cant wait to take her out on some trails though and see what kind of fun/trouble we can get in to.

Unrelated: What kind/designation/part number engine do I have on that bike? I have seen some that are like 165FML or something and some are like GY8 or whatever. It'd definitely help when looking up parts and accessories. Thanks again!

[Weldangrind]

The engine number should be on a milled surface on the left side, somewhere near the shifter. Let us know that number, and we can try to decode it.

[gman4dx266]

Thanks again, I believe the number pressed in is:

S1N143280122

I am not sure about the "1" that is after the "S". That MAY be a vertical bar to denote "Serial Number" but I cant be sure. It just doesn't look like the rest of the number ones in the sequence. Hope that is sufficient for identification!

[Weldangrind]

That number configuration isn't familiar to me; was it near the gearshift?

[gman4dx266]

That's correct, near the shifter. Here is a picture of it. The shifter is to the right, you can see a slight bit of the shifter shaft.