Why Would A Manufacturer Put A Carb On Their Bike Like The Hawk's Carb?

Cheapo_ChiRi · 12-27-2017, 08:06 PM

OK, I am just super curious about something regarding the Hawk 250's carburetor that I just cannot help but ask because it is totally mind-boggling!

Why... for the love of all that is good... would the Hawk designers (or anyone bike manufacturer for that matter) choose a carb for their bikes which do not allow the buyer to remove the float bowl to replace the stock jetting?? Unless the bike was meant to be sold in one small specific area of the world, wouldnt the manufacturer be aware that jetting varies in different areas requiring access to carb jets??

It is well known to almost everyone here on the forums that the Hawk 250 carb comes jetted dangerously LEAN from the factory. So we owners must change the jetting to prevent catastrophic engine damage. But the carbs on these bikes are meant to PREVENT us from changing the jetting unless we get creative (and brave for newbies) and grind slots in to the carb with a power tool! Yes its not very difficult for the mechanically incline, but its the principle! PLUS many newbies without power-tool/grinding expertise or mechanical abilities will buy these bikes!

Why did the Hawk 250 manufacture choose to put carbs on these bikes which prevent us from fixing a dangerously lean state of tune? This is like selling a bike with a stick of dynamite in the engine which is certainly set to go off in the near future.

Why?? Can anyone help me understand why Haosen would choose these carbs for their Hawk 250?

Thanks.

**JerryHawk250** · 12-27-2017, 08:24 PM

It's not just the HAWK but all manufacturer. One word. EPA

Megadan · 12-27-2017, 08:31 PM

Yep, its for EPA compliance/regulations more than anything else. You can still uncrew the bowl, but you have to slot them to use a flat head.

culcune · 12-27-2017, 11:00 PM

The manufacturers and importers are cheap bassards, so they will specify the lowest cost per unit carb; ironically, RPS is an actual subsidiary of Hensim/Hoasen(sp?) who make the Hawk, so I imagine they could have spent the extra couple dollars to put a better carb on the beast?! Ironically, the Hawk is still NOT highway certified and is still considered an 'off-road dirt bike' according to the EPA.

BlackBike · 12-27-2017, 11:38 PM

Just like they sealed up weed eater and power blowers carbs back in the 90's, to set the emissions at permanent levels and not allowing it to be tampered with.

Megadan · 12-28-2017, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by culcune

The manufacturers and importers are cheap bassards, so they will specify the lowest cost per unit carb; ironically, RPS is an actual subsidiary of Hensim/Hoasen(sp?) who make the Hawk, so I imagine they could have spent the extra couple dollars to put a better carb on the beast?! Ironically, the Hawk is still NOT highway certified and is still considered an 'off-road dirt bike' according to the EPA.

Yep, but in many states that epa legality for off road is all it takes to allow on road registration. One advantage of living in a flyover state.

HILL · 12-29-2017, 03:54 PM

Speaking of the stock Hawk carb, where is the "throttle speed screw" mentioned in the little owner manual?
I have one odd screw right side of carb that seems not to do anything screwed in or out so it can't be the "throttle speed screw", right?

Megadan · 12-29-2017, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HILL

Speaking of the stock Hawk carb, where is the "throttle speed screw" mentioned in the little owner manual?
I have one odd screw right side of carb that seems not to do anything screwed in or out so it can't be the "throttle speed screw", right?

Idle speed adjustment screw is the knob looking screw on the right side. If it isnt doing anything then it may be too far out and needs to be turned in a bit more so the little finger on the end of the screw contacts the throttle barrel slide.

HILL · 12-29-2017, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

Idle speed adjustment screw is the knob looking screw on the right side. If it isnt doing anything then it may be too far out and needs to be turned in a bit more so the little finger on the end of the screw contacts the throttle barrel slide.

Yep! Who'da thunk that the screw was barely installed? It took six turns before starting to raise idle. I'd been afraid of turning it so much as I figured it to be a needle valve type adjustment.
Thanks much Dan!

Megadan · 12-29-2017, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HILL

Yep! Who'da thunk that the screw was barely installed? It took six turns before starting to raise idle. I'd been afraid of turning it so much as I figured it to be a needle valve type adjustment.
Thanks much Dan!

Not a problem. I noticed mine wasn't screwed in all the way when I removed it to install the Minkuni while first assembling my bike. Glad to help.

Cheapo_ChiRi · 12-29-2017, 07:14 PM

Thanks guys for your replies! The Hawk 250 is a great value and so I can understand, and live with some imperfections but I was just super curious about knowing the answer on this topic.

Moving forward, I bought a Mikuni VM26 carb which was a super CHEAP fix and will solve the issue but I am a curious person and just had to ask about this.

You guys are the best, thanks!

RogerWFarrier · 01-03-2018, 02:45 PM

I have to say that the Keima carb that comes on the TT is actually a pretty decent carb. It uses standard Kehin jets and has given me no issues at all.

Megadan · 01-03-2018, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerWFarrier

I have to say that the Keima carb that comes on the TT is actually a pretty decent carb. It uses standard Kehin jets and has given me no issues at all.

The part I don't get is... That Keima carb probably cost only a few more bucks than the Shengway the Hawk's come with. I would have paid $5 more for a better stock carburetor. Even the Bashan bikes come with a better carburetor.

RogerWFarrier · 01-04-2018, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

The part I don't get is... That Keima carb probably cost only a few more bucks than the Shengway the Hawk's come with. I would have paid $5 more for a better stock carburetor. Even the Bashan bikes come with a better carburetor.

I can only attribute it to this is what happens when you let accountants make the business decisions instead of the engineers.....lol.

Ariel Red Hunter · 01-04-2018, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerWFarrier

I can only attribute it to this is what happens when you let accountants make the business decisions instead of the engineers.....lol.

The Sheng wey carb was specified for two very good reasons. (1) More difficult to modify from EPA compliant status, and (2) less cost at manufacturers level. Number 2 I did not really understand until 2 friends of mine, who worked at GM (in Detroit) engineering tech, came off work seeking solace in the hands of Bacchus. They were frothing at the mouth over a decision by upper management at GM to use four rear tail lights on the new Corvair instead of Indium-Bronze main and rod bearings. For the same cost with Indium-Bronze bearings they could only afford two tail lights. Now that is the way the real world of engineering actually works....ARH

12-27-2017, 08:06 PM	#1
Cheapo_ChiRi Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 11	Why Would A Manufacturer Put A Carb On Their Bike Like The Hawk's Carb? OK, I am just super curious about something regarding the Hawk 250's carburetor that I just cannot help but ask because it is totally mind-boggling! Why... for the love of all that is good... would the Hawk designers (or anyone bike manufacturer for that matter) choose a carb for their bikes which do not allow the buyer to remove the float bowl to replace the stock jetting?? Unless the bike was meant to be sold in one small specific area of the world, wouldnt the manufacturer be aware that jetting varies in different areas requiring access to carb jets?? It is well known to almost everyone here on the forums that the Hawk 250 carb comes jetted dangerously LEAN from the factory. So we owners must change the jetting to prevent catastrophic engine damage. But the carbs on these bikes are meant to PREVENT us from changing the jetting unless we get creative (and brave for newbies) and grind slots in to the carb with a power tool! Yes its not very difficult for the mechanically incline, but its the principle! PLUS many newbies without power-tool/grinding expertise or mechanical abilities will buy these bikes! Why did the Hawk 250 manufacture choose to put carbs on these bikes which prevent us from fixing a dangerously lean state of tune? This is like selling a bike with a stick of dynamite in the engine which is certainly set to go off in the near future. Why?? Can anyone help me understand why Haosen would choose these carbs for their Hawk 250? Thanks.
	0

12-27-2017, 08:24 PM	#2
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,562	It's not just the HAWK but all manufacturer. One word. EPA __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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12-27-2017, 08:31 PM	#3
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,020	Yep, its for EPA compliance/regulations more than anything else. You can still uncrew the bowl, but you have to slot them to use a flat head. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	1

12-27-2017, 11:00 PM	#4
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	The manufacturers and importers are cheap bassards, so they will specify the lowest cost per unit carb; ironically, RPS is an actual subsidiary of Hensim/Hoasen(sp?) who make the Hawk, so I imagine they could have spent the extra couple dollars to put a better carb on the beast?! Ironically, the Hawk is still NOT highway certified and is still considered an 'off-road dirt bike' according to the EPA. __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	1

12-27-2017, 11:38 PM	#5
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	Yes!... all that say epa... Just like they sealed up weed eater and power blowers carbs back in the 90's, to set the emissions at permanent levels and not allowing it to be tampered with. __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	1

12-29-2017, 03:54 PM	#7
HILL Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: PNW Posts: 14	Speaking of the stock Hawk carb, where is the "throttle speed screw" mentioned in the little owner manual? I have one odd screw right side of carb that seems not to do anything screwed in or out so it can't be the "throttle speed screw", right?
	0

12-29-2017, 07:14 PM	#11
Cheapo_ChiRi Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 11	Thanks guys for your replies! The Hawk 250 is a great value and so I can understand, and live with some imperfections but I was just super curious about knowing the answer on this topic. Moving forward, I bought a Mikuni VM26 carb which was a super CHEAP fix and will solve the issue but I am a curious person and just had to ask about this. You guys are the best, thanks!
	1

01-03-2018, 02:45 PM	#12
RogerWFarrier Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida Posts: 91	I have to say that the Keima carb that comes on the TT is actually a pretty decent carb. It uses standard Kehin jets and has given me no issues at all. __________________ 2016 CSC TT 250, 17/40 sprockets, JT 428 chain, Stock Keima carburetor with needle raised 1 notch and 115 main jet. Modified stock exhaust, Tachometer/Digital cluster upgrade. LED headlight, Superbrightleds 1157 Tail light bulb, Shinko 705's 90/90-21 and 120/80-18.
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