What is the top speed on your China Bike?

[scoot newb]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

Also a terrible idea. If you want a high quality strong splice and don't want to solder or buy the correct connectors and crimping tool, the only thing reliable and suitable for motorcycle use are Posi-lock connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/Posi-Lock-Con...dp/B00HTA8O9S/

I use those for my stator connectors on my vintage bikes. Almost universally the OEM connectors get brittle or melt, they're just not rated for the amp output and getting a little dirty just exacerbates the problem. These Posi Lock connectors have been reliable for years, and the wire itself will break before the splice comes undone.

Charles.

The posi-lock isn't very waterproof. The Heat Shrink Butt Connectors create a good shrink wrapped solder joint.

[PhildoScaggins]

Originally Posted by scoot newb

I was going to use these and the connector from the original motor so I can clip it in and out if needed.

These things are great if you don't want to solder. Just a heat gun and you're good to go.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074HZHD9Q/

I think I'm going to try this route. Thanks!

[scoot newb]

[ChopperCharles]

If you actually solder them, yes. But if you just wrap the wires, that's not a good solution at all. And the OP wanted something that was undo-able in the future.

Charles.

[scoot newb]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

If you actually solder them, yes. But if you just wrap the wires, that's not a good solution at all. And the OP wanted something that was undo-able in the future.

Charles.

The heat gun is enough to melt the solder ring inside the butt connectors. True though, they aren't very undo-able.

[scoot newb]

Getting close now.

[SilverBullet51]

I must have a factory freak, I'm 250lbs and can top my Monster out at 65mph (on the factory speedo) on flat road. I've only removed the egr, and have a 17t front sprocket.

[ChopperCharles]

Took a Genuine G400C for a test ride the other day. Top speed is 80mph indicated. It wouldn't go even 1mph faster than that. And the vibration at that speed is pretty awful. It will cruise at 70mph easily, and even hold 75mph steadily uphill... but again, vibration city.

Charles.

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by SilverBullet51

I must have a factory freak, I'm 250lbs and can top my Monster out at 65mph (on the factory speedo) on flat road. I've only removed the egr, and have a 17t front sprocket.

Have you changed carbs or tuned the stock carb also? I have seen You Tube video of someone with a Lil Duc or Lil Monster only the same mods as you ( I think they also changed the carb) and they hit 63 or 64MPH on the (I think SoCal) Freeway. Also if you are hitting even the slightest downhill that might be half a degree slope or whatever gradual decline you can;t even percieve with your naked eyes, or maybe if you have no wind or wind blowing you forward or humidity and temp differences to change the air density and therefor resistance---ALL those things can give you quite significant changes! on the slightest downhill your added weight would actually increase your top speed---Im not saying you are going downhill or whatever, maybe the dealer tricked out your bike or who knows? Maybe you could also be hitting the imperceiveably slight downhill to get up near 60MPH, then you hit "perfectly flat" ground while still slowly taking that acceleration and momentum and energy with you from the slighest downhill to get the last 5ish MPH..possibly? Have you also checked your speedo vs a verified to be accurate GPS app or verified car speedo? After break-in I checked my 2019 Gen 1 Vader speedo vs GPS and campe up with less than a 1 MPH difference at 40MPH and then I checked my GPS vs a car speedo while going thru a Police Speed Radar display and my car speedo is Not digital, but both speedos and GPS and the radar seemed within 1MPH or each other. I can feel my bike get up to 40MPH or so reasonably fast then up near 50MPH and then it hits the wall of what at least SEEMS to be or maybe literally is severely diminishig returns on the amount of power you put in vs the gain in acceleration/speed you get back.

I would be interested in you objectively trying to check your speedos/GPS against each other AND against radar if it isn't much trouble and maybe posting a video here if you want. I think what you claim is possible, under the right conditions with the 124/125ishcc stock motors that come on all these clones. I mentioned the above video (with a new /tuned carb) hitting 63+MPH and have two friends who both claim speeds touching or slightly above 60MPH+ with just sprocket(s) and carbs/jets and air intake and maybe in all cases exhaust mods/swaps

This guy claims the usual stock top speed of 50MOH with only changing from a 20mm to a 22mm carb adn "shortening his exhaust"--whatever shortening it entails:

I have talked to this guy thru brief YT comments. He is a cool guy, pretty knowledgeable about at least what he has done with the Vader and has been very nice to me and others answering questions and he has some decent Youtube videos of him riding and working on his Vader under the YouTube user name Y4shiRoku. He claims(and I trust him) his Vader has touched 60MPH with 17t front (Maybe rear mod too?) sprocket, genuine jetted/ tuned Mikuni VM22, has tried at least a couple exhausts. Video:

Im PRETTY SURE I have ssen another YT video of a stock displacement clone with sprocket, carb and probably other mods hit 63MPH on a highway/freeway, but am not going to spend additional time finding it. I KNOW FOR A FACT with the 17T front sprocket if you can get it up to redline @ 8400 RPM then the Vader would be going about 67MPH!!--IF no slippage were occurring--I got this number by using the data that I hit 40MPH with this setup @ 5000 RPM and about 48MPH @ 6000 RPM so the calculation to figure out speed based on RPM for this setup is 5000RPM / 40MPH = 1MPH gained per 125RPM increase...so 8400RPM / 125 = 67.2MPH ......SO to look at your setup, which is the same as mine(although you Haven't answered me whether or not ya swapped out your carb or changed ANY parts on your carb or fiddled with your carb or air intake or less importantly your exhaust either in any way at the time of me writing this. Also you have plugged your what you call EGR, although it's more of a system that adds fresh air to exhaust NOT Exhaust Gas Recycling as you claim, but thats ok--I HAVE NOT blocked mine off yet, Im sure that blocking it COULD help depending on the catalytic convertor and what is entering your exhaust prior to adding fresh air and without adding fresh air and on and on)

ANYHOW with, basically your gearing setup with that 17 tooth front sprocket and the rest stock like mine the calculation of ABOUT 125RPM per 1 MPH holds true so to be going 65MPH as you say your Stock speedo said your 125cc clone engine would HAVE TO BE GOING ABOUT 8,125 RPM (65 x 125 = 8,125RPM) which I think is certainly possible becuase I Think I have revved my bike that high at a stop and I have only just recently broken in my bike to my satisfaction, so I havent really tried a PROPER top speed run on a very long road giving multiple passes on a non windy day--but I have hit 54MPH without trying too hard with my 17t and otherwise bone stock bike AND it didnt take too long to get up to that speed at 3/4 or more throttle and I barely held it at about WOT for a couple seconds and it was still accelerating even if quite slowly when I hit 54MPH--so I think 65MPH IS possible, probably if your carb is new or jetted or simply tuned stock and certainly if you were going on a very slight downhill like I already mentioned, even if it wasnt enough for you to see or feel or if you had ANY wind pushing you forward on a flat I think you could have gotten near 65MPH--maybe your speedo was off a few MPH too--next time check your RPM and report that number in a reply post, IF ya want to compare notes and I will prob check after dark cuz I get bored n dont ride too much or too late at night cuz its dark n I feel --more dangerous. **The RPM to MPH calculation of every 125RPM = 1MPH with the 17 tooth front sprocket and otherwise stock engine and stock tires is a ROUGH estimate because it's based on me glancing dow at stock speedo(which stock speedo IS pretty accurate to within 1MPH every time I checked) BUT my calculations or speedo havent been verified at every speed to see if there are variations of the speedos accuracy at many different speeds but only checked that at a couple speeds and also at about 40MPH MANY times--ALSO my calculations DO NOT take into consideration any slippage--slippage in the clutch, chain or wheels or anywhere in transmitting the power from engine revolutions thru the gears and sprockets and chain links to the wheel and tire and finally to the road to propel the bike and myself forward. I would be more than a little interested if you took more data and posted more results!

As always, ride safe, keep thinking sharp, act responsible enough at all times and ENJOY LIFE!!

Quote of the Week: Bunk: [to McNulty] "There you go. Givin' a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck." ---Bunk from The Wire TV Show

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by scoot newb

Getting close now.

Your ride IS looking niiiiice Scoot Newb! You'd ougtha to change your name soon to keep your name with with your experience level if the install goes well Zong Shen Veteran or something...IDK... I know you can't see me thru the Internet, but if you could see me you would see the look of jealousy, admiration and me bowing down to you and your nice looking now 190cc Bike! Well done friend!

Do you happen to have a step by step swap thread or a link handy so I dont have to look it up lol...if not its cool I will find one but love seeing new swaps n builds! Kepp us updated with how it goes and pros n cons etc homie! I'm currently trying to decide between a 140/155/160/190cc crate engines and I know the smaller ones I just listed can take a piston/cylinder BBK for less than $200 to increase them to at least a 170 to 184cc and the 190cc has a 212cc basic BBK for also under $200--I'm trying to decide between them and a stock engine BBK in the form of probably just a $150 piston/cylinder jobby since adding the head cost starts getting the total mod cost crazy high for just the result of having a 141/146cc!--I have heard people hit up to 65MPH with the 141/146ccBBK (not sure if that's with just a piston/cylinder or also at least an additional over $225 new "race" head!)----65MPH as a top speed is about enough for me, and I think that would TOTALLy be worth it IFn it only takes the basic $150 piston/cylinder BBK jobby and a tuned VM22 and maybe a modded/cheap new exhaust would also be acceptable and thats what I would go for if I dont also need a head to go that fast--I just wish I could test ride a 125cc with a 141/146cc BBK to see if it also has the acceleration/ hill climb to make it enough performance both for what I want and for how much time/ money is put into the work and parts it takes!!!

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

Took a Genuine G400C for a test ride the other day. Top speed is 80mph indicated. It wouldn't go even 1mph faster than that. And the vibration at that speed is pretty awful. It will cruise at 70mph easily, and even hold 75mph steadily uphill... but again, vibration city.

Charles.

Genuine Website lists their G400c as having a displacement of 397cc in it's fuel injected, single cylinder, 350lbs when wet and ready to ride stock design. It's single cylinder engine with dual exhaust headers that end in a 2-1 Y joint makes 22-ft pounds of torque, 26 horsepower, a top speed of 80+ MPH (you got the 80MPH on your trst ride but DUDE you TOTALLY mossed out on the +!!! hahahahaha lol) The G400c looks jind of like a throwback to a 1970's Honda "Cafe Racer" type and could maybe be made to look like a Bobber with a seat/ wheel combo change, maybe? It has 18" rear and 19" front wheels, 31" seat height (just like Vaders, Bucaneers and all the "clones", and many small to mid size sport bikes etc etc I guess 31" probably is just right for the most amount of people plus anyone can easily change the height +/- 6" without too much cost or effort on most bikes) It gets 70+MPG. The G400c is listed for sale with an MSRP of ....DRUMROLL maestro.......... $4,599 !!!! woh woh wuh---ZONK! Maybe Dirty Harry said it best when he said: "You've got to ask yourself one question,"Do I feel lucky?".. "Well do ya PUNK?!" " ERRR Maybe I meant to say is the bike in stock for worth $4599 based on performance, reliability/quality, looks and potential resale value if you EVER might even think about selling it or want it to hold value. Perhaps IF you NEVER plan on reselling and want to keep insurance (and property taxes if you have them like I do) low--well then maybe you actually WANT the bike to lose value lol....Also is $4599 worth it as a base price to have a start for a build?? Decide for yourself at your own risk! I think it looks Great! & I would LOVE a bike of this style someday, even today IF I could easily afford it-- BUT I'm definitley NOT sure of the price because there are simply to many older bikes for less money with similar or better performance and too many new bikes with some similar specs that you could build up to be better for less money, and both used and new bikes that are significantly cheaper than the G400c and could definitley be modified to perform good amount better while still costing a significant total amount less IF a rider wants to put some work/time/effort in---AS a prepackaged, ready to go bike---ehhh, I think IF the G400c is quite reliable and IF you are ok with it's performance specs then I would say take it for a ride and if you like it and IF you have over $4500 to spend on a bike without missing the money at all then there are definitley worse bikes you could go with!! It might be an OK price but if it was $1000 less I would like it a whole lot more. Maybe Im just a cheapskate or getting old--I can still remember when hamburgers at my local McDonalds were like 35 cents or less 25+ years ago and now they are $1 more, at least in the overpriced are I live in! Gas was also under $1/gallon, times were good ---Link: http://www.genuinescooters.com/g400c.html

What Would Dirty Harry Say? :

[scoot newb]

Originally Posted by sirmaxwell

Your...

There isn't any step by step the closest thing I saw was an 8 minute time lapse video that offered nothing of value. It was shot from far away, it was dark and people stood in front of the camera. If anything the video was misinformation. Those people in the video had obviously done it before. They didn't use a jack (you should if you're doing it by yourself) they did it with the bike on the kickstand.

It really is as easy as they say. Use the jack to lift the motor to get the top bolt loose. Pound it through with a screw driver. I removed the swing arm and shock cause the bottom bolt on the Hellcat is up in there.

I replied in another thread, I forget the one but the swap is for the most part done. It took 4 hours. Most of the time was hack sawing off the lower mount on the stock exhaust so I could make it fit. Only to find out the stock exhaust was much too restrictive.



It hauls ass and for $640 including shipping for an entire ZS190 kit from pitster pro, I don't think you're going to find a better deal. BBK's meh.. Its just not worth the cost. Here and there it adds up and you'll find you've spent more than $640 in the long run for a bunch of bolt on parts that will not get you close to the 190. Plus you can even 212BBK the 190 and add a 4v head. I can only imagine that. For real, the 190 is ridiculous on it's own. Even poorly tuned with stock exhaust. New exhaust arrives tomorrow and so does the jet kit.

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by scoot newb

There .

Im surprised the stock exhaust fit at all!

Ive geard the BBK can add up to +10MPH to about 65MPH top speed with a tuned carb, probably the VM22 or equivalent probably sprocket(s) changed also but not sure if that includes the head change which costs a lot more by itself than the piston/cylinder. just the piston/cylinder is only $150--which seems to be around the same cost per horsepower gained of the ZongShen 190cc--that is until the ZS went on sale, I guess the ZS is only $64 per HP added BBK is around $75+


Let me know how you jet it and links to exhaust if it works out. See I guess one reason I was considering a BBK or a slightly larger YX crate engine that is set up exactly the same as stock is because it seems easier to do but yeah its obvious the ZS is better if you plan on keeping the bike because pretty much most or every rider will eventually want a faster bike until you sort of reach the limits of the design which is probably a 4v head on the 212cc kit maybe with a longer swingarm to increase wheelbase--or the crazy 300cc swap, but I've actually seen and heard that maybe the 300 is overkill turning it into a bulky drag bike and not what it was originally intended to be at all

I still have to jet or tune my stock carb which I keep putting off...every time it dips below 65 or 60 degrees and I try to ride it the bike will stall out after a minute or two of riding, probably not getting enough fuel I'm guessing.It was 50-55 when I rode this morning and stalled twice on a 2.5 mile ride...then twice once again on the same ride in the other direction home ..but runs perfectly fine in warmer temps--just dawned on me that I have a VM22 to install--maybe I could jet one carb for warm weather and one for colder , and leave the stock intake on the stock carb to swap back in real quick for cold morning runs to the convenience store. It gets cold enough to need a re-jet here overnight pretty much all year, just on and off for the summer months but still even then probably over half the nights drop into the mid 60's or well below

true it is a great looking deal for $640 to get the whole kit--and I don't see it probably ever getting any cheaper for the long term, just more expensive. Its looking better to me every day. If I can learn everything I need for it plus the little detailed steps in addition to the more self explanatory steps then I will be ready. I gyess I should order soon if I want to swap this year and get a good amount of riding in

SO you need a new exhaust...do you also need a new throttle cable? or anything else you can think of?

Your bike is definitley looking better than stock now Im difgiing the bars, grips 'n' mirrors -- It looks tighter, more complete with the new engine, plus the ZS is a nice color contrast

[ChopperCharles]

The other bikes on the market that comes close to the looks and styling of the G400C are the Yamaha SR400, which is quite a bit more, and the SSR (Italjet) Buccaneer 250i, which is quite a bit less. The SR400 is a physically smaller bike. I feel like a bear on a tricycle sitting on it. The G400C felt like a normal sized motorcycle to me, as does the SSR.

After test riding the G400C, I'm actually super happy I didn't wait for it, and purchased a Buccaneer instead. The vibration on the G400C, plus the lazy handling and weird seating position made me itch for my Buccaneer. The additional torque was the only plus the G400C has over the Buccaneer. The Buck actually has a higher top speed... but only under ideal conditions. (ie: Not going uphill, and not with my fat ass on it going uphill)

The price on the G400C seems a grand too high to me. Especially considering the cheap gauges and weird, unfinished footpeg brackets.

Charles.

[RedCrowRides]

@SirMaxwell - We might have gone through this in / on a separate thread already, but I had a similar fuel starvation issue on my Vader, and it turns out that where the tank bolts to the frame on the seat end is where the fuel outlet is- the tank was tightened down to where the fuel line was damn near crimped in two, as in flat from being crushed against the air emissions evac can that is mounted there under the tank .


I unbolted the tank, and added a washer or two under to uncrimp the fuel line ,before i later removed all that emissions stuff which eliminated the problem by doing away entirely with the evap canister .


Might be worth a look see to see if that is what is causing your fuel delivery issue ,as it seems to be a quite common issue possibility they way the bikes are assembled and where stuff is located. There are some rubber washers there that "ought" to prevent this from happening but cheap chinese rubber coupled with apparent gross over tightening at the factory squashed them flatter than a pancake resulting in crimped fuel line. For that matter, you need to get rid of the stock black chirubber fuel line and repl it with a good silicone fuel line, the ethanol in our gas here makes the chinese fuel lines start to break down and flake off on the inside , and these flakes will clog your inline filter or worse carb jet inlets.