Magician front sprocket 17T install

China Rider 27 · 07-29-2019, 12:06 AM

Yesterday I put work in on the motorcycle improvement program by swapping out the chain and front sprocket on the Magician to 17T. I found the inside keeper arrangement on the HAWK 520 chain works great and I planned to do that on the Magician from the get go and I installed it that way and found out the chain rubs on the sprocket cover down low where the chain exits the cover. Then I tried to install it in the factory position with the outside keeper retention and the chain hits the case hard. This swap out has the same issues as a prior post for the HAWK 17t and what I found on the HAWK 13T 520 chain. The only option to run it was to install the keeper reverse on the inside and I ground the sprocket cover to get the chain to clear. The alignment looks great and the chain guide now works as it should. Before the outside of the chain rode on the outside of the center guide. As far as alignment goes, it is almost as if these bikes were designed to have the sprocket positioned as done with the reverse keeper. The top 90 degree corner of the sprocket cover has to be ground down too.

Weldangrind · 07-29-2019, 11:16 AM

I know it's not what you were posting about, but I wish my bike had those snail adjusters.

China Rider 27 · 07-29-2019, 12:51 PM

They are much better than the HAWK system and seem to be accurately marked. Took it out yesterday and works great but top speed as measured off the stock speedometer was 62 mph. I could get 60 with the 15T. It just seems to die up there at high rpm a lot because of the restrictive exhaust so I am working on that but I am moving toward head porting. For road riding I am finding it lacks the necessary speed and power. I will say that the Magician sits lower, has a stiffer suspension, and I find it feels like it hugs the road better than the HAWK but then they are different designs with different purposes.

Megadan · 07-29-2019, 03:23 PM

Yeah, I agree that the sprockets are better positioned on the outside of the retainer groove. It makes installing and removing them a bit of a chore, but the chain alignment is way better that way. It also buys more real estate away from the case should you throw the chain, and may help prevent splitting said case in such an event.

Also, you are correct about the exhaust system and the head. It will definitely pull better up top, but no matter what you do it will still be restricted by the cam profile. My bike winds out to the rev limiter no problem, but still tends to run out of steam past 7500, just not as severely. Before it would just fall on its face.

China Rider 27 · 07-29-2019, 07:51 PM

Ever since I saw that link you put on about Cleveland Cycle land speed record I've been thinking about camshafts. The sound of that CG bike on the dino at 27 hp screams camshaft. Like to see what a camshaft would do to horsepower on these motors! Be nice to get one out of south america!

Nastynelly · 10-12-2019, 11:35 AM

How did you get the sprocket all of the way on with the keeper? My sprocket will only sit halfway onto the shaft with the keeper in reverse.

China Rider 27 · 10-12-2019, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastynelly

How did you get the sprocket all of the way on with the keeper? My sprocket will only sit halfway onto the shaft with the keeper in reverse.

The groove cut in the output shaft as I remember it is approximately 15mm in from the end of the splined shaft. The sprocket keeper rides in this groove and spins around it to line up for bolt tightening and to ride against the spline when turned to retain the sprocket. The sprocket will slide on the spline following the grooves. The keeper can be installed so the sprocket rides on the outside or the inside of the groove. The only reason the sprocket will not go on is if the groove for the retaining clip is not 15mm or so thereabouts in from the shaft end.

Baskt_Case · 10-12-2019, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

I know it's not what you were posting about, but I wish my bike had those snail adjusters.

Yes! Yes! Yes! I would like to know all about your adjusters and what ever else you've done to the swingarm and rear axle, please!

Nastynelly · 10-13-2019, 12:18 PM

I can get the sprocket keeper into that groove with the sprocket on, but I'm just worried about the sprocket only being about halfway over the output shaft with the keeper in reverse. I don't know if that would place too much torque on the keeper to hold it all in place. I'm currently running it with the 17T on normally but without the cover installed so it's ok for now.

In your photos it looked like the sprocket fit all of the way on so I thought I had it on wrong. Otherwise maybe my output shaft has different spacing for the keeper groove.

China Rider 27 · 10-13-2019, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastynelly

I can get the sprocket keeper into that groove with the sprocket on, but I'm just worried about the sprocket only being about halfway over the output shaft with the keeper in reverse. I don't know if that would place too much torque on the keeper to hold it all in place. I'm currently running it with the 17T on normally but without the cover installed so it's ok for now.

In your photos it looked like the sprocket fit all of the way on so I thought I had it on wrong. Otherwise maybe my output shaft has different spacing for the keeper groove.

I would definitely not run it unless the sprocket fit well onto the shaft, the keeper worked properly, and there were not any other chain alignment or other issues. Sounds like your keeper groove is closer to the end of the output shaft. 15 mm is about 5/8 inch so sounds like your keeper grove is about half that. Curious is this a Magician that you are working on or another bike? As far as cover you might be able to grind the corner and get it to fit over the 17t but it is tight.

Nastynelly · 10-13-2019, 10:50 PM

Yeah. I think the groove is too close to the end. Probably should not run it like that.

It is my bike... Well my wife's bike but she lets me ride it and what not. Ha. I'll probably take a look at getting the cover to fit back on. If not that then maybe a smaller rear sprocket will be an option.

Drak · 01-02-2020, 12:08 AM

How many links in your new chain? Fixing to put a 17t on my magician and looking for an appropriate chain to order. thank you.

China Rider 27 · 01-02-2020, 10:55 PM

I don't remember exactly but I think it should have been something around 126 links and the stock chain was 124. Again this from memory. Looking at the picture here of the chain fitted you can see the overlapping links. Here is the chain I bought:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/428X136-Mot...72.m2749.l2649

07-29-2019, 11:16 AM	#2
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I know it's not what you were posting about, but I wish my bike had those snail adjusters. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	3

07-29-2019, 03:23 PM	#4
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,031	Yeah, I agree that the sprockets are better positioned on the outside of the retainer groove. It makes installing and removing them a bit of a chore, but the chain alignment is way better that way. It also buys more real estate away from the case should you throw the chain, and may help prevent splitting said case in such an event. Also, you are correct about the exhaust system and the head. It will definitely pull better up top, but no matter what you do it will still be restricted by the cam profile. My bike winds out to the rev limiter no problem, but still tends to run out of steam past 7500, just not as severely. Before it would just fall on its face. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 Last edited by Megadan; 07-29-2019 at 10:56 PM.
	1

07-29-2019, 12:51 PM	#3
China Rider 27 Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: PNW Posts: 982	They are much better than the HAWK system and seem to be accurately marked. Took it out yesterday and works great but top speed as measured off the stock speedometer was 62 mph. I could get 60 with the 15T. It just seems to die up there at high rpm a lot because of the restrictive exhaust so I am working on that but I am moving toward head porting. For road riding I am finding it lacks the necessary speed and power. I will say that the Magician sits lower, has a stiffer suspension, and I find it feels like it hugs the road better than the HAWK but then they are different designs with different purposes.
	1

07-29-2019, 07:51 PM	#5
China Rider 27 Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: PNW Posts: 982	Ever since I saw that link you put on about Cleveland Cycle land speed record I've been thinking about camshafts. The sound of that CG bike on the dino at 27 hp screams camshaft. Like to see what a camshaft would do to horsepower on these motors! Be nice to get one out of south america!
	0

10-12-2019, 11:35 AM	#6
Nastynelly Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3	How did you get the sprocket all of the way on with the keeper? My sprocket will only sit halfway onto the shaft with the keeper in reverse.
	0

10-13-2019, 12:18 PM	#9
Nastynelly Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3	I can get the sprocket keeper into that groove with the sprocket on, but I'm just worried about the sprocket only being about halfway over the output shaft with the keeper in reverse. I don't know if that would place too much torque on the keeper to hold it all in place. I'm currently running it with the 17T on normally but without the cover installed so it's ok for now. In your photos it looked like the sprocket fit all of the way on so I thought I had it on wrong. Otherwise maybe my output shaft has different spacing for the keeper groove.
	0

10-13-2019, 10:50 PM	#11
Nastynelly Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3	Yeah. I think the groove is too close to the end. Probably should not run it like that. It is my bike... Well my wife's bike but she lets me ride it and what not. Ha. I'll probably take a look at getting the cover to fit back on. If not that then maybe a smaller rear sprocket will be an option.
	0

01-02-2020, 12:08 AM	#12
Drak Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 15	How many links in your new chain? Fixing to put a 17t on my magician and looking for an appropriate chain to order. thank you.
	0

01-02-2020, 10:55 PM	#13
China Rider 27 Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: PNW Posts: 982	I don't remember exactly but I think it should have been something around 126 links and the stock chain was 124. Again this from memory. Looking at the picture here of the chain fitted you can see the overlapping links. Here is the chain I bought: https://www.ebay.com/itm/428X136-Mot...72.m2749.l2649
	0