My dilemma!

[PastorCzo]

Originally Posted by franque

They've basically got the same motor, and they would have nearly the same top speed. Short of modifying either one quite extensively, cruising at 70 will probably be a tall order...

The CSC is a 230cc, while the Ghost is a 250cc. The Ghost has a modified CDI chip. It will at least hit 70, maybe not comfortably. The CSC on the other hand would be a tall order to his 60 with my fat but on it.

[MeatHammer]

Originally Posted by PastorCzo

The CSC is a 230cc, while the Ghost is a 250cc. The Ghost has a modified CDI chip. It will at least hit 70, maybe not comfortably. The CSC on the other hand would be a tall order to his 60 with my fat but on it.

The ghost is a 230cc as well. Most Chinese 250s are actually 230cc engines. The only exception on Venom Motorsports is the Venom GTO and the Lifan Lycan I believe. Look up some speed test videos for the Ghost and any other bike you are interested in. Most places over state their top speeds. I asked Venom about the new Ghost and they are still waiting on exact specs from the factory since it is an updated model.

[franque]

Like meathammer said. Almost no Chinese '250's are actually a 250, other than some DOHC liquid-cooled models. CSC is actually honest about their displacement. There's also a 169fmm that is 250ccs, but that's only on higher-end stuff that's more expensive than this. The 'modified' CDI at best has no rev limiter, it's unlikely the ignition curve is changed. The odds that you'll get much more power are almost zero.

What I said still applies. Most of what you see on most websites that sell Chinese bikes is marketing fluff, or a major exaggeration. Most 250s will struggle to maintain 70 without screaming their heads off, that was the rationale for my recommendation before about keeping the Vulcan.

I looked at the engine again, and I'm not sure what it's based off of, but any air-cooled 250 single will struggle to cruise at the speeds you're wanting. This 'unknown' engine could put out a little more power, but it could be a lot harder to get replacement parts for it. If it was a CB/CG clone, that would be a different story.

[PastorCzo]

Originally Posted by franque

Like meathammer said. Almost no Chinese '250's are actually a 250, other than some DOHC liquid-cooled models. CSC is actually honest about their displacement. There's also a 169fmm that is 250ccs, but that's only on higher-end stuff that's more expensive than this. The 'modified' CDI at best has no rev limiter, it's unlikely the ignition curve is changed. The odds that you'll get much more power are almost zero.

What I said still applies. Most of what you see on most websites that sell Chinese bikes is marketing fluff, or a major exaggeration. Most 250s will struggle to maintain 70 without screaming their heads off, that was the rationale for my recommendation before about keeping the Vulcan.

I looked at the engine again, and I'm not sure what it's based off of, but any air-cooled 250 single will struggle to cruise at the speeds you're wanting. This 'unknown' engine could put out a little more power, but it could be a lot harder to get replacement parts for it. If it was a CB/CG clone, that would be a different story.

The biggest question of mine would actually be can it hit 55-60. I do not plan on riding it on busy highways, although busy in southern Ohio is no where near busy in a major city. Most country roads are 55mph and that is where I will be doing most of my joy riding, my commute to work has a speed limit of 55mph.

I like the looks of the San Gabriel a lot more to be honest, and the lighter weight and center stand is a major plus for me, but if they are essentially the same then is the almost $400 dollar difference worth it for the SG250?

[MeatHammer]

Originally Posted by PastorCzo

The biggest question of mine would actually be can it hit 55-60. I do not plan on riding it on busy highways, although busy in southern Ohio is no where near busy in a major city. Most country roads are 55mph and that is where I will be doing most of my joy riding, my commute to work has a speed limit of 55mph.

I like the looks of the San Gabriel a lot more to be honest, and the lighter weight and center stand is a major plus for me, but if they are essentially the same then is the almost $400 dollar difference worth it for the SG250?

I think you should be fine if you aren’t planning on going over 65mph often. My old Chinese cruiser was great between 40-55mph. The X22R has the same engine as the ghost and cruises at 60-65 with ease. There are some simple modifications you can do as well (change sprockets) to give you better cruising speed at lower rpms. Like I said before though, Venom is waiting on exact specs from the factory.

[franque]

I would go with the CSC just because they're using standard stuff, and parts are easier to get. I'm not sure what motor the X22R is using, I haven't seen the naked motor itself. The nice thing with the CSC is you can even use Honda parts, like gaskets and other things.

[Chrisguga]

Originally Posted by franque

I would go with the CSC just because they're using standard stuff, and parts are easier to get. I'm not sure what motor the X22R is using, I haven't seen the naked motor itself. The nice thing with the CSC is you can even use Honda parts, like gaskets and other things.

The Venom X22R motor is a Honda CRF230F clone and nearly all the parts from the Honda work on this motor. The Wiseco piston kits, the Athena big bore kit, the multitude of camshafts, etc.

My X22R with a rear sprocket, air filter, cat removed from the exhaust, and 105 main jet will cruise all day at 65mph with a top speed of 74 on gps. It ran 69 when stock. I’m 6’3” and 230lbs. JerryHawk250 has gotten 81 out of his bike, but weighs 50 pounds less. I also got 72mpg on my last tank of gas with the new sprocket which included several top speed runs and many wide open throttle acceleration runs.

This CB250 is actually 223cc, but is a smooth running engine that puts out decent power. It’s rated at 16hp stock, the cheap mods get it to an estimated 18hp, and one guy has actually dyno’d his bike with the addition of the Wiseco 11:1 compression piston and a small cam and made 22 rear wheel hp. He’s going to the Athena big bore kit to take it to 233cc along with a bigger cam next and I’m guessing he’ll get 23-24hp to the wheel which is what a stock Japanese 250 makes.

[PastorCzo]

Well I have enough money for a KPM/KPR.....great, so do I really want to wait until July to get a Ghost, or should I get the KPM/KPR or even the csc sg250?

Why cant I just afford one of each

[culcune]

Originally Posted by PastorCzo

Well I have enough money for a KPM/KPR.....great, so do I really want to wait until July to get a Ghost, or should I get the KPM/KPR or even the csc sg250?

Why cant I just afford one of each

Out of the 'Lifecta' (KP/KPR/KPM) I would say get the KPM. Very stylish bike and not too pretentious (pretentious as compared to other bikes, not the KP/KPR), as the styling is subtle. Interestingly, I had heard on the 'Dorito and the Luchacabre' channel on YouTube that the KPM actually uses a so-called 'Gen 2' engine on the KPM vs. a 'Gen 1' engine on the KP/KPR. On the EPA/DOT certificate, the KP/KPR are on one certificate, while the KPM is on its own. This makes sense because once a bike(s) is (are)certified, they keep their own certificate. A company, when renewing its certificate, cannot throw a new model on the certificate, meaning the KPM couldn't piggyback on the KP/KPR's certificate even if it is essentially the same bike underneath (or similar enough). So, the KPM has its own certificate. When you scroll over, and get to the 'official' power listings (the EPA/DOT certificates use KW, not horsepower), it shows the KP/KPR power as being 10.7 KW (14.3 hp) vs, the KPM as 12.5 KW (16.7 hp). Not sure if this translates to 'real-world' power, or just technical details on official documents. I did tell the Dorito and the Luchacabre channel to do a comparison of their KPM to their KP (since it is essentially the same as the KPR), and they said they would. I would be curious if the KPM actually has more power.

[PastorCzo]

Ok, just spoke with with CSC and they told me to reach 60-65 I would need to get a 16tooth sprocket, chain, and a carb rejet. How how are these to install in all honesty?
I am actually deciding between the San Gabriel and the Lifan KPM

[culcune]

Originally Posted by PastorCzo

Ok, just spoke with with CSC and they told me to reach 60-65 I would need to get a 16tooth sprocket, chain, and a carb rejet. How how are these to install in all honesty?
I am actually deciding between the San Gabriel and the Lifan KPM

None of those items is difficult to install. However, the KPM will cruise at 70+ all day long. This video from Dorito and the Luchacabre showed a new KPM hitting an indicated 79 MPH. Now, on Small Engine Velocity's Lifan videos, he as a few Lifans, and all had about a 5 MPH error on the speedo vs. GPS, so I can say the bike was over 70.

[PastorCzo]

Ok. So after going back and forth. I decided to buy a csc cafe racer with 16 tooth sprocket, chain and rejet kit. With all that I was still under the price of the lifan.
I will post pictures when it comes in

[Biker_Andy]

A new exhaust will add a bunch more power as well. The existing exhaust meets California regulations and is rather restrictive.

[culcune]

Originally Posted by PastorCzo

Ok. So after going back and forth. I decided to buy a csc cafe racer with 16 tooth sprocket, chain and rejet kit. With all that I was still under the price of the lifan.
I will post pictures when it comes in

It will be a good bike. Not sure why they are pushing a 16 tooth countersprocket, however. I am fairly certain the TT250 comes stock with a 17, so if this does as well (it should since it is the same engine) I wouldn't bother with the 16 until later. They are plentiful and cheap on Ebay and Amazon if you find the stock one not to your liking. Like Biker_Andy stated, you will also want an exhaust which will really wake the bike up.

[PastorCzo]

Any suggestions on exhaust. I have no idea where to begin to look