Electrics work, starter won't

krat · 01-21-2020, 05:25 PM

I stuck the battery into the TBR7 today, turned ignition on, got a neutral light, indicators and headlight work.

Starter will not kick over.

hot wired starter from the battery and it turns over. Still did not fire up but it was too cold to fool with it longer.

Is this just a faulty starter button?

Common problem?

**JerryHawk250** · 01-21-2020, 05:31 PM

Try pulling the clutch lever and brake to deactivate and safety switches. Not sure if the TBR7 has a safety switch on the kick stand.

krat · 01-21-2020, 05:35 PM

No switch on the side stand. I will try the brake and clutch lever tomorrow but I think I pulled every lever on the bike in my frustrated mode of light panic already.

NzBrakelathes · 01-21-2020, 07:34 PM

Sounds like safety switch circuit failed at clutch lever - by pass it

Savageman69 · 01-22-2020, 01:41 AM

the same thing that happened to me what I did was stripped a wire and took a small copper wire from the inside wraps around the two small peices under the clutch lever that the two wires plug into. I pulled the two wires off the two ends wrapped a small copper wire around 2 in underneath the clutch lever and then for those two wires back in hold that copper wire also makes it look a little bit more clean so you don't have to have those two wires hanging.

Emerikol · 01-22-2020, 04:53 AM

If the safety switch at the clutch isn't the issue (some bikes have them, some bikes don't), then I would look into the starter relay being the culprit here. If you press the starter button with the clutch pulled in, you should hear a 'click' of the relay engaging. It's most likely under the seat somewhere. Start with troubleshooting the clutch safety circuit (if equipped) and then move onto the starter relay. The good news here is that the starter made all the right noises when you jumped it out, so we can cross that off the list of troubleshooting items.

grumpybastard · 07-04-2020, 12:31 PM

I have a similar issue of a Hawk 250 starter button not working:
Brand new 2020 Hawk 250. Ordered it assemble but not broken in.

On my first attempt to start the bike I pressed the starter button 3 or 4 times for about 3 seconds each time. On the 4th or 5th attempt the engine started. Since that first start the starter button has done nothing at all. When pressed, the following happens (or doesn't happen):
- Starter does not engage
- No click in solenoid
- All other electronics work
- Crossing the solenoid terminals engages the starter (starts bike)

I do not remember if I originally engaged the clutch or brake levers when the starter button did work, but I do know that the bike was in neutral and that the kick stand was down. I have since tried with every combination of clutch and brake engagements/disengagements, to include putting the kick stand up and down for each attempt, just for good measure. I even tried with the emergency shut off in both the run and kill positions, because why not at this point?

I checked the fuse, which was good, and threw in a new solenoid, still nothing from starter button.
I changed the fuse just in case and still nothing.
I then tested the solenoid on a different bike and everything worked as it should, so its not the solenoid.
I am lost at this point. My next step without outside/expert/experienced guidance will be to take the bike apart and inspect every wire to see if any have burned out.

Kick starting the bike is an option, though it sometimes takes 20 or 30 kicks to get it to turn over (yes, I am working the choke to find its sweet spot for starting, but its a new engine, so kick starting should get easier in time).

Any thoughts or suggestions would be MUCH appreciated!
Thanks All!

franque · 07-04-2020, 02:42 PM

Check to see if the starter switch is sending power, and then check to see if it's properly grounding. It has to be one or the other.

grumpybastard · 07-05-2020, 11:04 AM

Thanks Franque. I have to buy another multimeter, mine seems to have disappeared. I'll check for voltage/current tonight.

Some posts have suggested crossing terminals beneath the clutch or break lever. So, guessing these are what they were talking about , I crossed the two terminal lugs beneath the clutch that the two square female connectors go to (there are two under the front break lever also, I tried those as well), nothing happened when the starter button was pressed.

As I wrote originally, the solenoid/starter relay doesn't even click, so I agree with Franque's train of thought that this seems like a current issue. I'll keep looking and repost when I figure it out. might be a burned out wire or a bad connection somewhere.

I ran a couple of 6 gauge wires off of the solenoid and attached male/female connectors to them so my son could touch them together to start the bike (he's to lite weight to kick start it). It's not pretty, and it they get hot if touched together for too long, but who cares, it works for now.

Keep the suggestions coming if anyone has any.

grumpybastard · 07-08-2020, 12:27 PM

This is definitely a grounding issue.

I removed the starter button by removing the screw from the bottom of the assembly. This allows the starter button part of the assembly to be removed without affecting the kill switch. Inside the starter button portion is are three parts:
1. A copper plate with two wires soldered to it
2. A Spring
3. A small copper nipple

When the starter button is pressed the spring and and nipple are pressed into the copper plate crosses the positive and negative wires on the plate, thereby closing the circuit and sending the signal to the solenoid to engage the starter.

I manually crossed the positive and negative wires on the copper plate with a piece of wire and nothing happened. When I touched the copper plate to brake lever bolt the bike started. So, when I grounded the plate the bike started.

I have not tracked down the dis-connect yet, but will do so.

grumpybastard · 07-16-2020, 05:58 PM

Thanks again for the suggestions.

I never did figure out what the issue is with the starter button. Continuity seems good all around. I've used a 'known good' solenoid from my other bike without success. Makes no sense, but the button still does nothing. Connecting the button directly to the solenoid just burns out the button and or wires (I've gone through several button assemblies).

I have only discovered one fuse (15 amp), and it is attached to the solenoid.
--- ARE THERE ANY OTHER FUSES THAT I HAVE MISSED???

I did find that the seller put the kicker on in the wrong position (thanks Orion). I was only getting about 1/2 a bump with each kick. After fixing that it starts on first or second kick, not 30 or 40 kicks and a lot of bruised shins.

I also welded a wing nut to the end of the carburetor idle screw. This makes it easy to adjust for difficult starts and warming up, then for turning it back down for running... and will help with adjusting for different temperatures. Again, what the hell, why not?

franque · 07-17-2020, 02:43 AM

Obviously one of the wires connected to the switch isn't properly connected. It sounds like the starter switch controls the ground to the solenoid, that is to say that it is switching ground, instead of power.

It sounds like the wire from the solenoid to the switch is good, but the wire from the switch to ground is bad or disconnected. Fix the ground, and the switch should work just fine.

You already proved it wasn't the solenoid, so quit messing around with it, it won't get you anywhere.

grumpybastard · 07-20-2020, 11:43 AM

Agreed, franque. I am waiting for another switch to arrive now. If hooking the switch up to the wiring harness does not work (and if I cannot find a fault in the ground or power supply wiring) I will manually ground the switch and see if that starts it up, hopefully with button pressed. As you said, and as my tests have suggested, it should work.
I'll post results in a week or so.

franque · 07-20-2020, 12:33 PM

You don't need a new switch necessarily, just get a volt meter and check continuity between the wires with the button pressed and without. If it's the same, the switch is bad, but it could just as easily be the wiring.

01-21-2020, 05:25 PM	#1
krat Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: KY Posts: 265	Electrics work, starter won't I stuck the battery into the TBR7 today, turned ignition on, got a neutral light, indicators and headlight work. Starter will not kick over. hot wired starter from the battery and it turns over. Still did not fire up but it was too cold to fool with it longer. Is this just a faulty starter button? Common problem?
	0

01-21-2020, 05:31 PM	#2
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,574	Try pulling the clutch lever and brake to deactivate and safety switches. Not sure if the TBR7 has a safety switch on the kick stand. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	1

01-22-2020, 04:53 AM	#6
Emerikol Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Carrollton, GA Posts: 1,465	If the safety switch at the clutch isn't the issue (some bikes have them, some bikes don't), then I would look into the starter relay being the culprit here. If you press the starter button with the clutch pulled in, you should hear a 'click' of the relay engaging. It's most likely under the seat somewhere. Start with troubleshooting the clutch safety circuit (if equipped) and then move onto the starter relay. The good news here is that the starter made all the right noises when you jumped it out, so we can cross that off the list of troubleshooting items. __________________ First Rule of Aviation: -Never Pass Up The Opportunity to Pee I was struggling to get my wife's attention; I sat down on the couch and looked comfortable. That did the trick! My wife says I only have two faults. I don't listen and something else... If at first you don't succeed, try doing it the way I told you to... The Stable: 2005 Yamaha V-Star 650 - SOLD 2015 Suzuki DR 650 2015 RPS Hawk 250 - SOLD 2016 Ural Gear Up
	0

07-08-2020, 12:27 PM	#10
grumpybastard Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 6	Solved This is definitely a grounding issue. I removed the starter button by removing the screw from the bottom of the assembly. This allows the starter button part of the assembly to be removed without affecting the kill switch. Inside the starter button portion is are three parts: 1. A copper plate with two wires soldered to it 2. A Spring 3. A small copper nipple When the starter button is pressed the spring and and nipple are pressed into the copper plate crosses the positive and negative wires on the plate, thereby closing the circuit and sending the signal to the solenoid to engage the starter. I manually crossed the positive and negative wires on the copper plate with a piece of wire and nothing happened. When I touched the copper plate to brake lever bolt the bike started. So, when I grounded the plate the bike started. I have not tracked down the dis-connect yet, but will do so.
	0

01-21-2020, 05:35 PM	#3
krat Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: KY Posts: 265	No switch on the side stand. I will try the brake and clutch lever tomorrow but I think I pulled every lever on the bike in my frustrated mode of light panic already.
	0

01-21-2020, 07:34 PM	#4
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	Sounds like safety switch circuit failed at clutch lever - by pass it
	0

01-22-2020, 01:41 AM	#5
Savageman69 Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 54	the same thing that happened to me what I did was stripped a wire and took a small copper wire from the inside wraps around the two small peices under the clutch lever that the two wires plug into. I pulled the two wires off the two ends wrapped a small copper wire around 2 in underneath the clutch lever and then for those two wires back in hold that copper wire also makes it look a little bit more clean so you don't have to have those two wires hanging.
	0

07-04-2020, 12:31 PM	#7
grumpybastard Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 6	I have a similar issue of a Hawk 250 starter button not working: Brand new 2020 Hawk 250. Ordered it assemble but not broken in. On my first attempt to start the bike I pressed the starter button 3 or 4 times for about 3 seconds each time. On the 4th or 5th attempt the engine started. Since that first start the starter button has done nothing at all. When pressed, the following happens (or doesn't happen): - Starter does not engage - No click in solenoid - All other electronics work - Crossing the solenoid terminals engages the starter (starts bike) I do not remember if I originally engaged the clutch or brake levers when the starter button did work, but I do know that the bike was in neutral and that the kick stand was down. I have since tried with every combination of clutch and brake engagements/disengagements, to include putting the kick stand up and down for each attempt, just for good measure. I even tried with the emergency shut off in both the run and kill positions, because why not at this point? I checked the fuse, which was good, and threw in a new solenoid, still nothing from starter button. I changed the fuse just in case and still nothing. I then tested the solenoid on a different bike and everything worked as it should, so its not the solenoid. I am lost at this point. My next step without outside/expert/experienced guidance will be to take the bike apart and inspect every wire to see if any have burned out. Kick starting the bike is an option, though it sometimes takes 20 or 30 kicks to get it to turn over (yes, I am working the choke to find its sweet spot for starting, but its a new engine, so kick starting should get easier in time). Any thoughts or suggestions would be MUCH appreciated! Thanks All!
	0

07-04-2020, 02:42 PM	#8
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	Check to see if the starter switch is sending power, and then check to see if it's properly grounding. It has to be one or the other.
	0

07-05-2020, 11:04 AM	#9
grumpybastard Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 6	Thanks Franque. I have to buy another multimeter, mine seems to have disappeared. I'll check for voltage/current tonight. Some posts have suggested crossing terminals beneath the clutch or break lever. So, guessing these are what they were talking about , I crossed the two terminal lugs beneath the clutch that the two square female connectors go to (there are two under the front break lever also, I tried those as well), nothing happened when the starter button was pressed. As I wrote originally, the solenoid/starter relay doesn't even click, so I agree with Franque's train of thought that this seems like a current issue. I'll keep looking and repost when I figure it out. might be a burned out wire or a bad connection somewhere. I ran a couple of 6 gauge wires off of the solenoid and attached male/female connectors to them so my son could touch them together to start the bike (he's to lite weight to kick start it). It's not pretty, and it they get hot if touched together for too long, but who cares, it works for now. Keep the suggestions coming if anyone has any.
	0

07-16-2020, 05:58 PM	#11
grumpybastard Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 6	Thanks again for the suggestions. I never did figure out what the issue is with the starter button. Continuity seems good all around. I've used a 'known good' solenoid from my other bike without success. Makes no sense, but the button still does nothing. Connecting the button directly to the solenoid just burns out the button and or wires (I've gone through several button assemblies). I have only discovered one fuse (15 amp), and it is attached to the solenoid. --- ARE THERE ANY OTHER FUSES THAT I HAVE MISSED??? I did find that the seller put the kicker on in the wrong position (thanks Orion). I was only getting about 1/2 a bump with each kick. After fixing that it starts on first or second kick, not 30 or 40 kicks and a lot of bruised shins. I also welded a wing nut to the end of the carburetor idle screw. This makes it easy to adjust for difficult starts and warming up, then for turning it back down for running... and will help with adjusting for different temperatures. Again, what the hell, why not?
	0

07-17-2020, 02:43 AM	#12
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	Obviously one of the wires connected to the switch isn't properly connected. It sounds like the starter switch controls the ground to the solenoid, that is to say that it is switching ground, instead of power. It sounds like the wire from the solenoid to the switch is good, but the wire from the switch to ground is bad or disconnected. Fix the ground, and the switch should work just fine. You already proved it wasn't the solenoid, so quit messing around with it, it won't get you anywhere.
	1

07-20-2020, 11:43 AM	#13
grumpybastard Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 6	Agreed, franque. I am waiting for another switch to arrive now. If hooking the switch up to the wiring harness does not work (and if I cannot find a fault in the ground or power supply wiring) I will manually ground the switch and see if that starts it up, hopefully with button pressed. As you said, and as my tests have suggested, it should work. I'll post results in a week or so.
	0

07-20-2020, 12:33 PM	#14
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	You don't need a new switch necessarily, just get a volt meter and check continuity between the wires with the button pressed and without. If it's the same, the switch is bad, but it could just as easily be the wiring.
	0