swing arm play?

[Kenstogie]

so as i was in the middle of changing my stock TBR7 tires to something more dirt worthy and i noticed there is some left/right play in my swing arm not a ton but more than i think is acceptable.....maybe 1/4 to 3/8 inch at the rear wheel axle, bike only has 400 miles on it give or take.....

swing arm nut was still tight and everything appeared in order .....

i took it apart and i noticed the swing arm bolt simply has play in the swing arm hole and does not really seem to be a "good" fit........ (see below video)

again not alot but more than i would think is acceptable and enough that the distance from the swing arm pivot to the rear wheel equates to about 1/4 to 3/8 inch at the rear wheel axle....

what am i missing.... ???
china quality, bad bearings, wrong axle size?

[wheelbender6]

Perhaps that looseness prevents bearing damage during 100+ degree days?

[franque]

What's the ID of the bushings? If I remember correctly, Hawks were using a swingarm pivot bolt that was 1mm smaller in diameter than the bushings, the fix was a Honda bolt. I would get something that doesn't have play, you might need to go to a machine shop or a Grainger to get the proper bolt. It should not have that play, but I'm guessing that most do due to the lack of quality put forth with cheaper Chinese motorcycles.

[Kenstogie]

thanks for comments guys i there an exploded view of the swing arm assembly somewhere?

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by franque

What's the ID of the bushings? If I remember correctly, Hawks were using a swingarm pivot bolt that was 1mm smaller in diameter than the bushings, the fix was a Honda bolt. I would get something that doesn't have play, you might need to go to a machine shop or a Grainger to get the proper bolt. It should not have that play, but I'm guessing that most do due to the lack of quality put forth with cheaper Chinese motorcycles.

No Hawk I have ever seen had this loose of a fit for the pivot bolt to the swing arm bushings. Both of mine, and my brozz swing arm, have a close enough fit that it will remove most of the grease on the bolt if you get a bit sloppy with it.

Kenstogie, does the bolt also fit that sloppy into the holes on the frame, or just the bushings?

[Kenstogie]

Originally Posted by Megadan

No Hawk I have ever seen had this loose of a fit for the pivot bolt to the swing arm bushings. Both of mine, and my brozz swing arm, have a close enough fit that it will remove most of the grease on the bolt if you get a bit sloppy with it.

Kenstogie, does the bolt also fit that sloppy into the holes on the frame, or just the bushings?

Hey Dan,, thanks for the reply.....The swing arm bolt seems to fit correctly in the frame but not the swing arm (made another short video comparing the two).

Bad bushings maybe or improperly made swing arm? Is it something I could have done when I was greasing it during initial setup?


Thanks again for the reply.

[franque]

Originally Posted by Megadan

No Hawk I have ever seen had this loose of a fit for the pivot bolt to the swing arm bushings. Both of mine, and my brozz swing arm, have a close enough fit that it will remove most of the grease on the bolt if you get a bit sloppy with it.

Kenstogie, does the bolt also fit that sloppy into the holes on the frame, or just the bushings?

Maybe I'm thinking of the rear axle?

You need bushings that fit properly, since it seems to fit the swingarm just fine. If you have a set of calipers, remove the bushings and measure the OD, ID, and length of the bushings, then get the OD of the axle, and change the bushing ID to match the OD of the axle (all of these measurements need to be in metric). Then, google it by ODxIDxLength, for example "30x15x50 bushing" (though that doesn't produce any results, you get the idea).

If you can't find a proper bushing, you can get one made out of either oilite bronze or delrin (nylon is possible too, but less durable) at a machine shop.

[Kenstogie]

Originally Posted by franque

Maybe I'm thinking of the rear axle?

You need bushings that fit properly, since it seems to fit the swingarm just fine. If you have a set of calipers, remove the bushings and measure the OD, ID, and length of the bushings, then get the OD of the axle, and change the bushing ID to match the OD of the axle (all of these measurements need to be in metric). Then, google it by ODxIDxLength, for example "30x15x50 bushing" (though that doesn't produce any results, you get the idea).

If you can't find a proper bushing, you can get one made out of either oilite bronze or delrin (nylon is possible too, but less durable) at a machine shop.

I was talking with a buddy who said that you really just have to "walk out" or tap out the bushings (coming from the other side) is this correct ? he said that you kind of tap on the left side and tap on the right side and kind of "walk it out" he said that it was a tight fit but not press fit tight.

is that pretty much the procedure for removing the bushings or am I missing something? thanks so much for the reply Franque

EDIT:
went to the garage to have a look and there doesn't appear to be anything in there other than a "tube" inside the shaft of the swing arm and it certainly seems fixed and not rotational

... nothing that i could tap out except for perhaps the entire cylindrical piece. i gently tapped on it for about a minute but it did not seem to move... so i left it as i didn't want to damage it.....

is it possible the bushings were never put in there during assembly or that when i was greasing the shaft during initial set up they fell out or they are seized? the bike ony has 500 miles on it tops....

[Bruces]

Anything is possible on a bike built to such a low price point .

[franque]

That's not enough play in my opinion to be missing the bushing, also I'm fairly certain I can see it in your video. They couldn't have fallen out, the bolt is holding them in place. If they seized, either the bolt wouldn't have come out, or one of them would have come out with the bolt. They just look like they're too big. They would possibly be in the frame and definitely in the swingarm, too. Do you know what a bushing looks like?

It would probably be easiest to pull the swingarm to remove the bushing, but possibly a blind bearing puller could work? Another option would be welding a ring around the inside of the bushing collar, and then knocking it out with a bolt/rod/etc. I wouldn't use the swingarm bolt though, because you'll probably mess up the threads.

I looked at the video again, that's with the swingarm disconnected from the frame pivot point, isn't it? If that's so, the bushings in the swingarm need to be removed and replaced with something that's properly sized. If it's too intimidating for you to do, I'd just take the swingarm and bolt to a machine shop, and tell them you want some oilite bushings that work with the provided axle (pivot bolt for the swingarm).

[Kenstogie]

Originally Posted by franque

That's not enough play in my opinion to be missing the bushing, also I'm fairly certain I can see it in your video. They couldn't have fallen out, the bolt is holding them in place. If they seized, either the bolt wouldn't have come out, or one of them would have come out with the bolt. They just look like they're too big. They would possibly be in the frame and definitely in the swingarm, too. Do you know what a bushing looks like?

It would probably be easiest to pull the swingarm to remove the bushing, but possibly a blind bearing puller could work? Another option would be welding a ring around the inside of the bushing collar, and then knocking it out with a bolt/rod/etc. I wouldn't use the swingarm bolt though, because you'll probably mess up the threads.

I looked at the video again, that's with the swingarm disconnected from the frame pivot point, isn't it? If that's so, the bushings in the swingarm need to be removed and replaced with something that's properly sized. If it's too intimidating for you to do, I'd just take the swingarm and bolt to a machine shop, and tell them you want some oilite bushings that work with the provided axle (pivot bolt for the swingarm).

i know what a bushing looks like .....but how a swing arm pivot point is all put together, not so much .....that why i was hopeful there was an exploded view or maybe a video so i could visualize whats goin on in there...

[franque]

It's in French, but the picture should be close enough for you: https://www.bike-parts.fr/honda-moto...F__2100/2/6903

[Kenstogie]

Originally Posted by franque

It's in French, but the picture should be close enough for you: https://www.bike-parts.fr/honda-moto...F__2100/2/6903

Thanks franque!

[Kenstogie]

so i took that whole assembly apart and what a F@k&n mess! will post pics later..

[Kenstogie]

So just like th e exploded diagram above from franque I took a picture of how the swing arm pivot assembly goes together... it took some force not crazy but some to get the seized bushings out...


they are all messed up and the swing arm axle goes inside the reference column and the bushings go in-between that and the actual swing arm... my axle and reference column (as it is called on some chines parts websites) are not compatible due to the size mismatch... this presumably caused my bushing failure which did not even turn at all.

I highly doubt there was ever grease in there, though I did grease the swing arm axle.. I never did the bushings. To be fair they may have been screwed up from the factory and probably were. That coupled with me not knowing left them as is assuming the factory did it correctly.

The size difference was obviously them.