Apollo 250 runs with NO choke Perfectly

[BuffaloChinaRider]

Hey, I hope everyone is well! So my apollo deluxe runs PERFECT with no choke. I'm talking it starts in the 30degree buffalo weather with no choke and runs strong all the way through. My buddy says thats not good and I need to redo my jetting. Problem is ive tried about 15 different jetting combinations and what I have now is the best the bike has ever ran. I'm a guy where if I do something to the bike and it runs great then I leave it that way. You guys on here have more motorcycle knowledge than me..so what do you guys think? I currently have a 115 main and 40 pilot runs and starts as smooth as can be. Thanks!

[Megadan]

Starting without any choke in 30 degree weather is a sign of being very rich on the pilot, or more specifically the idle mixture setting. How many turns out is the idle mixture screw?

[BuffaloChinaRider]

Thanks Dan, my buddy said I was rich. But its so weird because when I had my smaller pilot then the revs would hang. I put the 40 in and the lagging revs stopped. Right now I am about 2.5 turns out. I'd like to get the issue sorted before spring or if its gonna damage anything. From jetsrus I ordered a 37.5 pilot and a 42 pilot as well so I could go up or down to fix issues. I have those jets on hand.

[China Rider 27]

Take a look at the plug. You should be able to see that richness. We were talking about carb circuits on another post. I saw somewhere a guy tested his pilot circuit by warming up his bike, putting in a new spark plug, and letting it run for 5 minutes without opening the throttle. Let it cool off and remove the plug. Kinda like a plug chop of the Pilot circuit.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by BuffaloChinaRider

Thanks Dan, my buddy said I was rich. But its so weird because when I had my smaller pilot then the revs would hang. I put the 40 in and the lagging revs stopped. Right now I am about 2.5 turns out. I'd like to get the issue sorted before spring or if its gonna damage anything. From jetsrus I ordered a 37.5 pilot and a 42 pilot as well so I could go up or down to fix issues. I have those jets on hand.

The 40 may actually be a bit lean given the temps and mods, but the issue is the idle mixture being 2.5 turns out. Keep in mind that with no change to the idle mixture setting, but increasing the pilot jet size, you are still adding fuel to the idle mixture. That is why the mixture often needs to be adjusted when changing pilot jets.

I would say, stick with the 40 for now and set the idle mixture back to 1.5 turns out and go from there. If you notice any light throttle hiccups or hesitation or it simply will not idle or hangs with less than 2 turns out, then look into the 42 pilot or even a 45. Given the I had to run a 45 on my bike with the PZ30B after porting the head with the idle mixture 2 turns out in 50-60 degree weather. Just for a frame of reference.

Also, keep in mind that all jetting and idle mixture adjustments need to be done with the bike at temp (hot). So if you need to, ride it around slowly for several minutes and then see how it behaves and adjust accordingly.

You are also doing one of the most difficult things a person can do when it comes to jetting adjustments. Trying to judge changes in freezing temps. Think of it like the equivalent of expert mode lol.

The only other thing I would suspect would be the float height being too high, or a slightly leaking float needle causing the same issue - too much fuel in the bowl.

[Bruces]

You might wish to look for a brand new friend ,once somebody knows and thinks of you as rich ,they will never leave you alone when they need to mooch a few bucks .
Dan has you covered very well .

[TxTaoRider]

If you're sure the choke is in the on off position, and the pilot jet is in the normal range, you might want to check your float level. A high float level can give a really rich mixture particularly at idle and light throttle. You didn't mention smelling gas or seeing any dripping from the overflow hose, or I'd suggest checking for a leaky float valve.

[BuffaloChinaRider]

Thanks for the tips guys. Dan I will go to 1.5 turns out and leave the 40 in for now to see how it reacts and go from there. Also I'll mention that there is NO smell of gas or any overflow tube gas. This morning when I checked the spark plug it was not fouled or smelling like gas. It was just a slight brown color. After I go 1.5 turns out while leaving the 40 if that doesn't sit well I'll try the 42 like you said then I'll go down the list looking for float level and leaking float valve. I'll mention that the bike runs the same with the 3 other clone mikuni carbs I have when I put those jets in because I thought my carb was the issue. Jetting in the freezing cold is Frustrating to say the least! Also yes sure choke is in the off position 100%. That is a good tip though because at some point many of us have forgot choke on. Thanks again everyone, I'll report back later.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by BuffaloChinaRider

Thanks for the tips guys. Dan I will go to 1.5 turns out and leave the 40 in for now to see how it reacts and go from there. Also I'll mention that there is NO smell of gas or any overflow tube gas. This morning when I checked the spark plug it was not fouled or smelling like gas. It was just a slight brown color. After I go 1.5 turns out while leaving the 40 if that doesn't sit well I'll try the 42 like you said then I'll go down the list looking for float level and leaking float valve. I'll mention that the bike runs the same with the 3 other clone mikuni carbs I have when I put those jets in because I thought my carb was the issue. Jetting in the freezing cold is Frustrating to say the least! Also yes sure choke is in the off position 100%. That is a good tip though because at some point many of us have forgot choke on. Thanks again everyone, I'll report back later.

Don't just go off of the 1.5 turns out alone with the 40. Try to adjust that mixture screw to get a strong steady idle between 1 and 2 turns out. If it takes 2 turns out with the 40, then its still just fine.

[BuffaloChinaRider]

Yeah Dan for sure! I forgot to add that part I'm leaving the jetting and messing with the mixture screw to see if I can get a good adjustment. In the summer everything was fine with the jetting then winter came and it all went out the window as far as the no choke ever needed thing. I do know jets differ for warm/cold weather.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by BuffaloChinaRider

Yeah Dan for sure! I forgot to add that part I'm leaving the jetting and messing with the mixture screw to see if I can get a good adjustment. In the summer everything was fine with the jetting then winter came and it all went out the window as far as the no choke ever needed thing. I do know jets differ for warm/cold weather.

Yeah, they do differ when warm to cold. Density altitude changes and such. The difficult part is judging where to add the fuel when it starts getting below freezing with an air cooled engine. Their fueling needs can change a lot even when running due to constant swings in engine temps based on if you are static or moving, how much you are moving, how hard the engine is working, etc. That's why I called it expert mode. It's tricky lol.

[Griffx]

You could aslo play with the needle clip position