Where to get SAE 90 gear oil for stock chain?

[Jim Rogers]

I've been using the Maxima set of products for the past three years. I, too, can confirm that it doesn't pick up a lot of dirt.

But I can also confirm that the Maxima wax doesn't protect all that well against rust. I regularly ride in the rain, and my chains routinely develop light surface rust.

I don't think the rust is a serious problem, but it does make me wonder if the fact that it doesn't pick up dirt is because there isn't really anything there after treatment.

I've run out of the Maxima cleaner and lube, and have substituted Simple Green for those. Seems to work fine. I'm on my last can of Maxima Chain Wax now, and when it's gone, I'm going to try the gear lube. Perhaps I'll get the same results as JohnC as far as mess.

As far as WD-40 not working as a lube, Ryan's lab-style testing shows it does, and Watt-Man famously showed it worked great in real-world experience:

http://www.ktm950.info/how/Orange%20...experiment.pdf

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by Jim Rogers

As far as WD-40 not working as a lube, Ryan's lab-style testing shows it does, and Watt-Man famously showed it worked great in real-world experience:

http://www.ktm950.info/how/Orange%20...experiment.pdf

If lab-style you mean talking nice and showing nice graphics... There are too many variables that he left out... Just like he did when he compared oils from different brands too prove that Royal Enfield was making the best engines...

The PDF is an excelent proof of what i mean. He had to lube the chain 3 or 4 times every 1000 miles that's WAY too often. It will evaporate way too fast.

But most important let's see what RK has to say about WD40.


But hey if some random dudes over youtube said it's fine to use WD40, then i guess chain mfg are just not being honest about WD40.....

This is exactly what i mean.



He is a well know "youtube guy" and he is the "Senior Road Test editor" and he does a "scientific experiment" where he shows that if you leave an o-ring with WD40 overnight i won't be destroyed..

Does that prove anything? No
Why?
Because he is only using a few o-ring leaving them only overnight and he tested only few chains. While chain mfg test thousands of chains before they tell you how to take care of them.


I will stick to mfg guidelines over random dudes on youtube.

[Jim Rogers]

Originally Posted by Wild Dog

I will stick to mfg guidelines over random dudes on youtube.

Sounds good.

[Megadan]

Going back to maxima. I have noticed that if you use the mppl and wipe down the excess before using the chain wax it has a much better reaistance to rust. I am pretty particular about chain maintenance though, for what it's worth. Borderline OCD about it.

[China Rider 27]

Evidence is good, when it comes to drawing a conclusion.

https://advrider.com/f/threads/chain...esults.345397/

[Megadan]

For the record, most chain manufacturers want to avoid kerosene and other naptha based solvents, not because they will harm the o-rings, but because they are thin enough to potentially get past the rings and dissolve or dilute the grease in the rollers. Just so that little tidbit is known. Personally, I have used wd40 to clean many chains, including O ring, and have had great service life from them.

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by China Rider 27

Evidence is good, when it comes to drawing a conclusion.

https://advrider.com/f/threads/chain...esults.345397/

Chain mfg says "Do not use WD40". Even WD40 as a company makes a specialized chain lube, that's designed to lube chains



Going to be honest, i will never understand the fixation to use WD40 for everything. Still amazes me when people chose wd40 to clean and lube their guns instead something actually made for that like some mil spec clp, hoppes 9, etc.

[Jim Rogers]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Going back to maxima. I have noticed that if you use the mppl and wipe down the excess before using the chain wax it has a much better reaistance to rust. I am pretty particular about chain maintenance though, for what it's worth. Borderline OCD about it.

I bought a couple of rounds of the Maxima kit (cleaner, MPPL, chain wax), and went through the cleaner and MPPL much faster than the wax. When the cleaner and MPPL were gone, I switched to Simple Green and then chain wax (to use it up).

That switchover happened a while ago, and it's possible that my surface rust issue started after I ran out of MPPL (I can't remember for sure-- I wasn't expecting the problem so I wasn't watching carefully to see when the problem started). So you could be right and my rust issue is due to the fact that I quit using MPPL.

However, Maxima says their chain wax is supposed to work like cosmoline, so I'm not sure why, after applying to a clean, dry, rust-free chain, rust would show up after riding in the rain weeks later.

I've seen it speculated that MPPL is basically just up-labeled (and over-priced) WD-40. Thus, I've considered the following substitutions:

Simple Green instead of Maxima chain cleaner (already done that and it works).

WD-40 instead of Maxima MPPL to displace water (haven't tried that yet).

Gear oil instead of Maxima chain wax (also haven't tried, and others say it's messy).

I'm hoping the Simple Green/WD-40/Gear oil combo works, as it fits both my style and the general vibe of Chinese bikes.

Originally Posted by Megadan

For the record, most chain manufacturers want to avoid kerosene and other naptha based solvents, not because they will harm the o-rings, but because they are thin enough to potentially get past the rings and dissolve or dilute the grease in the rollers. Just so that little tidbit is known. Personally, I have used wd40 to clean many chains, including O ring, and have had great service life from them.

Exactly-- and Ryan explained exactly that in his chain cleaner video. And his results confirm your (and Watt-Man's) experience: Kerosene (and several commercial products specifically designed for chain cleaning) easily get though the O-ring seal and compromise the internal lubrication, while WD-40 and Simple Green do not.

If gear oil proves to be too messy, I think I might try Simple Green to clean, WD-40 to displace water, and cooking oil to lube. In Ryan's tests, PAM performed noticeably better than WD-40 (which many already use with great results) and almost as well as Maxima chain wax.

While I do regular chain maintenance, I'm definitely not OCD about it. Rightly or wrongly, I tend to believe that chains do just fine with less maintenance than many would believe.

I also don't mind experimentation, and love to find inexpensive substitutes that perform as well (or close to it) as the expensive stuff. That philosophy is much of the reason I like Chinese bikes in the first place.

[China Rider 27]

Originally Posted by Wild Dog

Chain mfg says "Do not use WD40". Even WD40 as a company makes a specialized chain lube, that's designed to lube chains

Attachment 24341

Going to be honest, i will never understand the fixation to use WD40 for everything. Still amazes me when people chose wd40 to clean and lube their guns instead something actually made for that like some mil spec clp, hoppes 9, etc.

I don't have fixation for it at all. I have not used it to clean or lubricate a chain and I for sure would not use it on guns. I just believe that decisions should be based upon the best evidence and and I don't see the evidence that eliminates it as beneficial and there appears to be some evidence, long term that it works. I am left to wondering, cleaning oil off of a chain requires a good solvent, how do all these other cleaners that work good not get by the O rings?

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by China Rider 27

I don't have fixation for it at all. I have not used it to clean or lubricate a chain and I for sure would not use it on guns. I just believe that decisions should be based upon the best evidence and and I don't see the evidence that eliminates it as beneficial and there appears to be some evidence, long term that it works. I am left to wondering, cleaning oil off of a chain requires a good solvent, how do all these other cleaners that work good not get by the O rings?

When i said that i wasn't talking about you or anyone in particular. Just in general, if you go and check any firearms forums, Cars forums, lawnmower forums, locksmith forums, etc. You will find post like
"THE REAL TRUTH!!! WD40 WORKS JUST FINE AS ...."

The evidence we have here it's dubious at best with too many unknowns for my taste.
So like i said early, i stick to chain mfg recommendations.

The drive chain is a key component any issue with the chain can lead to serious problems. From a cracked case to an accident on the road. So why take the risk???

[TxTaoRider]

Wow just having the word "oil" in the title seems to be all it takes to get everyone going. Lol

[China Rider 27]

Originally Posted by Wild Dog

When i said that i wasn't talking about you or anyone in particular. Just in general, if you go and check any firearms forums, Cars forums, lawnmower forums, locksmith forums, etc. You will find post like
"THE REAL TRUTH!!! WD40 WORKS JUST FINE AS ...."

The evidence we have here it's dubious at best with too many unknowns for my taste.
So like i said early, i stick to chain mfg recommendations.

The drive chain is a key component any issue with the chain can lead to serious problems. From a cracked case to an accident on the road. So why take the risk???

I agree if your chain manufacturer makes a recommendation then you should follow it or accept the consequences. The Manufacturers of the chains I have don't make any recommendation so I am left to figure that out.