Swing Arm Danger.. - Page 2

Brainsquishy · 10-04-2008, 08:43 PM

Just got back from the farm and I had to tow the HSUN in a trailer I pulled out of the overgrowth.
The new swing arm bolt I had just put in a week or so ago just snapped again. :x
This was a hardened bolt that had been machined slightly to match the original. It broke while doing 1st and 2nd gear rips up and down a smooth grass trail. I would put on the rear brake and slide sideways, then spin the rear wheel to get back on track. No bumps, or heavy lifting at all. Snapped off at the same place as before. (nut end)

Any suggestions on a new spec for these bolts?

As my son stood there fully geared up to go for his long awaited ride on the front of my seat, a guy sees us and pulls into the farm on his KTM enduro. First thing he says is, "hey is that one of those chinabikes?"
:oops:

tigertamer · 10-05-2008, 06:03 AM

Got all your skin?

Hardened steel is more brittle than the milder steels, and will easily break if the machining resulted in a "stress riser", a sharp edge for instance. They do not yield as much as mild, and strain put on it can make it snap.

I don't know if that is the cause, but it is worth investigating.

Also, the Evil Knievel hat may have something to do with it :wink:

I would check the bearing surfaces of the swing-arm/frame junction for flaws, and perhaps go with the Gorilla Glue to bush the bolt from the frame.

Good luck, Brother,
Tigertamer

winwun · 10-05-2008, 06:43 AM

I think I would go with stainless -- the swing arm is an ideal spot for the qualities of stainless . . .

Brainsquishy · 10-05-2008, 10:44 AM

OK, I am going to do the stainless and the gorilla glue suggestions.

As for Evil... :twisted:

TeamCheap · 10-05-2008, 11:13 AM

I dont know but my gut tells me there is nothing wrong with the bolts.

I'm wondering what stresses you are putting on it with those slides.

I am also wondering what the frame is like around the swing arm bracket area.
(does the frame have upper&lower cross braces around the swing arm mount?-are they broken?)

Is the frame cross braced so sideways force exerted on the bike with your sideways slides is transmitted to both sides of the bike frame via cross tubing or is there broken or no close cross tubing near the swingarm mount and that is over stressing the bolt.

What I'm trying to find out is, is there enough cross bracing near the swingarm bolt or is the swingarm bolt itself acting as a cross brace when you slide the bike sideways.

Dont discount that the stress you put on the bike while sliding it sideways is not enough to do damage.

I have ridden my bike over some punishing whoops with no ill affects to the bike and it was taking a pounding while doing it, so much so that I was bottoming out the suspension at times.

Just my thoughts.(probably way off)

Brainsquishy · 10-05-2008, 09:30 PM

Here a pic of the broken bolt.
I think it was too hard because there are no cracks or broken frame sections and the frame is cross braced.

http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...2_itemId=10094

http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...2_itemId=10116

Muffler was a secondary casualty.

http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...2_itemId=10099

NewEnglandTrails · 10-05-2008, 10:01 PM

Maybe it was over torqued? AKA tightened up too much?

NET

Brainsquishy · 10-05-2008, 11:47 PM

Maybe, but I didn't stand on it. I just had it nice and snug with locktight.

theENIGMATIC · 10-09-2008, 04:47 PM

As an HSUN owner I have to side with Squish as my bolt broke today on the nut end.first time the bolt that screws on on the right side flew of this time the head snapped.leaving me in a parking lot barely able to hammer it back in and get the chain back on......oh yeah it ripped of the left side of the engine cover for the gear mechanism etc....clean off, and in the garbage.......I wonder if its not a shock absorbing problem as the bolt is under high tension on these bikes as well as the swingarm...I have to try to get my bike home tonight after work with 2 t-bolts holding this bolt on.Im banking on it falling completely out on the way home.....I think hammering a tree branch in there might do as good a job.one day I didnt bring any tools with me too....Ill have my work cut out for me finding a replacement...

TeamCheap · 10-09-2008, 05:52 PM

Well looking at the picture with the bolt broken off flush with the outside of the frame mount I'd have to guess over torqued or some other force is being applied to it.

It doesnt look as if it was sheared off, I would expect it to have been cut more to the inside line and the break looks more like it pulled apart rather than having been cut.

This site has TITANIUM swingarm bolts and stuff.
axles, swingarm bolts -suzuki

I typically dont torque down a bolt real tight that has a locknut or especially a castle nut.

Anyway I hope you get it figured out and fixed but as for me I probably wont be on here anywhere near as much as I have been (daily before now 2/3 times a month if that)

panicacid · 10-09-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDG1976

I'd use a whole tube off red loctite too! That's scary considering since my sprocket change I can get my GY-5 up to 80+.

to be honest I'd suggest using a crown nut and a locking pin just to make sure that even if it comes loose it doesn't come off.

theENIGMATIC · 10-09-2008, 10:32 PM

Thanks for the tip.I will probably look into a local fastener joint first as it would be a guess to see if any of those nice looking bolts on that site will actually fit right..if I get the bike home...leaving soon.....with the t bolts holding it on.I will be picking up some epoxy putty or something to see if that will hold it together until I get a replacement....well see!

fatboy250 · 10-10-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainsquishy

Just got back from the farm and I had to tow the HSUN in a trailer I pulled out of the overgrowth.
The new swing arm bolt I had just put in a week or so ago just snapped again. :x
This was a hardened bolt that had been machined slightly to match the original.

How was it machined? You may have created a shear point if the machined bolt was not radiused where it had been turned down.

elroyjetsn · 10-10-2008, 01:17 PM

Rule of thumb:

You CANNOT machine case hardened bolts in ANY way!!! :!: :!: :!:

The hardened steel is only a few mills thick at the surface. Once you take ANY metal off ANYWHERE- the bolt is compromised!!! :x

Also, you should use a bolt that is not threaded at the openings of the swingarm mounting flanges. Use washers if need be.

theENIGMATIC · 10-16-2008, 07:29 PM

Replaced my broken bolt with a 10 inch length by half inch diameter bolt I found at Canadian tire....its not for auto purposes but it fit right and was cheap, for now it does the job, I will wait to see if it breaks like the stock did.hopefully it doesnt kill me if it does :(
Not sure it would help but I thought of maybe putting some rubber, maybe something made from some old turn signal mounts to but between the hole in the frame the bolt goes into and the head of the bolt maybe to reduse streass on the bolt head as it likely pulled off.either that or a spring of some sort..anytjing to improve the safety as this is sort of a major concern that Im sure it will pop off again, just a matter of when? :oops:

10-04-2008, 08:43 PM	#16
Brainsquishy Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 327	Snapped AGAIN! Just got back from the farm and I had to tow the HSUN in a trailer I pulled out of the overgrowth. The new swing arm bolt I had just put in a week or so ago just snapped again. :x This was a hardened bolt that had been machined slightly to match the original. It broke while doing 1st and 2nd gear rips up and down a smooth grass trail. I would put on the rear brake and slide sideways, then spin the rear wheel to get back on track. No bumps, or heavy lifting at all. Snapped off at the same place as before. (nut end) Any suggestions on a new spec for these bolts? As my son stood there fully geared up to go for his long awaited ride on the front of my seat, a guy sees us and pulls into the farm on his KTM enduro. First thing he says is, "hey is that one of those chinabikes?" :oops: __________________ Riding a blue plated HSUN 200GY (Otherwise know as a ULIKE 200GY, SUNL 200GY or a VIVA SX200S), a 2010 Gio Mini Hummer 110cc ATV, 2010 Gio T3 Rebel ATV, and a 2002 Kawasaki KLR650, 70cc Katera dirtbike, and a 49cc GIO dirtbike...so far!
	0

10-05-2008, 06:03 AM	#17
tigertamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wheeling, West Virginia Posts: 683	Got all your skin? Hardened steel is more brittle than the milder steels, and will easily break if the machining resulted in a "stress riser", a sharp edge for instance. They do not yield as much as mild, and strain put on it can make it snap. I don't know if that is the cause, but it is worth investigating. Also, the Evil Knievel hat may have something to do with it :wink: I would check the bearing surfaces of the swing-arm/frame junction for flaws, and perhaps go with the Gorilla Glue to bush the bolt from the frame. Good luck, Brother, Tigertamer __________________ 07 H-D XL883C 06 LF 200GY-5 Yin and Yang CAUTION Obey The Traffic Regulation. Always Wear a Helmet. Don't Ride After Drinking Wine. Before Operation, Read The Owners Manual Carefully.
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10-05-2008, 06:43 AM	#18
winwun Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 169	I think I would go with stainless -- the swing arm is an ideal spot for the qualities of stainless . . . __________________ If everyone picked up a couple of pieces of litter, pretty soon there wouldn't be ANY, and wouldn't THAT be nice ? Luke, 11: 21
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10-05-2008, 10:44 AM	#19
Brainsquishy Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 327	OK, I am going to do the stainless and the gorilla glue suggestions. As for Evil... :twisted: __________________ Riding a blue plated HSUN 200GY (Otherwise know as a ULIKE 200GY, SUNL 200GY or a VIVA SX200S), a 2010 Gio Mini Hummer 110cc ATV, 2010 Gio T3 Rebel ATV, and a 2002 Kawasaki KLR650, 70cc Katera dirtbike, and a 49cc GIO dirtbike...so far!
	0

10-05-2008, 09:30 PM	#21
Brainsquishy Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 327	Here a pic of the broken bolt. I think it was too hard because there are no cracks or broken frame sections and the frame is cross braced. http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...2_itemId=10094 http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...2_itemId=10116 Muffler was a secondary casualty. http://www.chinariders.net/gallery2/...2_itemId=10099 __________________ Riding a blue plated HSUN 200GY (Otherwise know as a ULIKE 200GY, SUNL 200GY or a VIVA SX200S), a 2010 Gio Mini Hummer 110cc ATV, 2010 Gio T3 Rebel ATV, and a 2002 Kawasaki KLR650, 70cc Katera dirtbike, and a 49cc GIO dirtbike...so far!
	0

10-05-2008, 11:13 AM	#20
TeamCheap Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: directly under the earths sun............NOW Posts: 2,302	I dont know but my gut tells me there is nothing wrong with the bolts. I'm wondering what stresses you are putting on it with those slides. I am also wondering what the frame is like around the swing arm bracket area. (does the frame have upper&lower cross braces around the swing arm mount?-are they broken?) Is the frame cross braced so sideways force exerted on the bike with your sideways slides is transmitted to both sides of the bike frame via cross tubing or is there broken or no close cross tubing near the swingarm mount and that is over stressing the bolt. What I'm trying to find out is, is there enough cross bracing near the swingarm bolt or is the swingarm bolt itself acting as a cross brace when you slide the bike sideways. Dont discount that the stress you put on the bike while sliding it sideways is not enough to do damage. I have ridden my bike over some punishing whoops with no ill affects to the bike and it was taking a pounding while doing it, so much so that I was bottoming out the suspension at times. Just my thoughts.(probably way off)
	0

10-05-2008, 10:01 PM	#22
NewEnglandTrails Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Quiet Corner of CT. Posts: 387	Maybe it was over torqued? AKA tightened up too much? NET __________________ 2006 HIBIRD QH200-st atv, 2005 Kinroad 200GY-01, 2006 Roketa DB-05, 1980 Kawasaki KZ440 LTD
	1

10-05-2008, 11:47 PM	#23
Brainsquishy Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 327	Maybe, but I didn't stand on it. I just had it nice and snug with locktight. __________________ Riding a blue plated HSUN 200GY (Otherwise know as a ULIKE 200GY, SUNL 200GY or a VIVA SX200S), a 2010 Gio Mini Hummer 110cc ATV, 2010 Gio T3 Rebel ATV, and a 2002 Kawasaki KLR650, 70cc Katera dirtbike, and a 49cc GIO dirtbike...so far!
	0

10-09-2008, 04:47 PM	#24
theENIGMATIC Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 392	As an HSUN owner I have to side with Squish as my bolt broke today on the nut end.first time the bolt that screws on on the right side flew of this time the head snapped.leaving me in a parking lot barely able to hammer it back in and get the chain back on......oh yeah it ripped of the left side of the engine cover for the gear mechanism etc....clean off, and in the garbage.......I wonder if its not a shock absorbing problem as the bolt is under high tension on these bikes as well as the swingarm...I have to try to get my bike home tonight after work with 2 t-bolts holding this bolt on.Im banking on it falling completely out on the way home.....I think hammering a tree branch in there might do as good a job.one day I didnt bring any tools with me too....Ill have my work cut out for me finding a replacement...
	0

10-09-2008, 05:52 PM	#25
TeamCheap Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: directly under the earths sun............NOW Posts: 2,302	Well looking at the picture with the bolt broken off flush with the outside of the frame mount I'd have to guess over torqued or some other force is being applied to it. It doesnt look as if it was sheared off, I would expect it to have been cut more to the inside line and the break looks more like it pulled apart rather than having been cut. This site has TITANIUM swingarm bolts and stuff. axles, swingarm bolts -suzuki I typically dont torque down a bolt real tight that has a locknut or especially a castle nut. Anyway I hope you get it figured out and fixed but as for me I probably wont be on here anywhere near as much as I have been (daily before now 2/3 times a month if that)
	0

10-09-2008, 10:32 PM	#27
theENIGMATIC Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 392	Thanks for the tip.I will probably look into a local fastener joint first as it would be a guess to see if any of those nice looking bolts on that site will actually fit right..if I get the bike home...leaving soon.....with the t bolts holding it on.I will be picking up some epoxy putty or something to see if that will hold it together until I get a replacement....well see!
	0

10-10-2008, 01:17 PM	#29
elroyjetsn Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 629	Rule of thumb: You CANNOT machine case hardened bolts in ANY way!!! :!: :!: :!: The hardened steel is only a few mills thick at the surface. Once you take ANY metal off ANYWHERE- the bolt is compromised!!! :x Also, you should use a bolt that is not threaded at the openings of the swingarm mounting flanges. Use washers if need be. __________________ Wayne Wildfire WF300-SP
	0

10-16-2008, 07:29 PM	#30
theENIGMATIC Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 392	Replaced my broken bolt with a 10 inch length by half inch diameter bolt I found at Canadian tire....its not for auto purposes but it fit right and was cheap, for now it does the job, I will wait to see if it breaks like the stock did.hopefully it doesnt kill me if it does :( Not sure it would help but I thought of maybe putting some rubber, maybe something made from some old turn signal mounts to but between the hole in the frame the bolt goes into and the head of the bolt maybe to reduse streass on the bolt head as it likely pulled off.either that or a spring of some sort..anytjing to improve the safety as this is sort of a major concern that Im sure it will pop off again, just a matter of when? :oops:
	0