Kpx 250 transmission goes kaboom

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by jjn

Good to know that Venum and Lifan will stand behind their stuff to buyers!

Well, yes. But this engine is a clone of the Zongshen 172FMM. Some folks on this website have made it a point that Lifan makes their own engines, with the implication that they are better for some reason. Of course, it is good that Venom is holding Lifan's feet to the fire. But I am more concerned that this standard old OHC engine design failed at all. Zongshen units are considered durable and dependable, worldwide.

How many of these 172 series engines do you think Zongshen has made/sold? Most have been carbed, not adapted for EFI. But the ZS172 series probably has 10x the number of units in service. And Zongshen makes many different engines. There are many, many manufacturers that place these dependable in generators, hydraulic equipment, quads, dirt bikes, road bikes and other industrial applications. You may have a high pressure washer with a ZS engine in it!

Just sayin...

[herbie]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Well, yes. But this engine is a clone of the Zongshen 172FMM. Some folks on this website have made it a point that Lifan makes their own engines, with the implication that they are better for some reason. Of course, it is good that Venom is holding Lifan's feet to the fire. But I am more concerned that this standard old OHC engine design failed at all. Zongshen units are considered durable and dependable, worldwide.

How many of these 172 series engines do you think Zongshen has made/sold? Most have been carbed, not adapted for EFI. But the ZS172 series probably has 10x the number of units in service. And Zongshen makes many different engines. There are many, many manufacturers that place these dependable in generators, hydraulic equipment, quads, dirt bikes, road bikes and other industrial applications. You may have a high pressure washer with a ZS engine in it!

Just sayin...

Thumper, I wanted to find out about if Lifan or Zongshen builds Lifan engines so I contacted American Lifan. They said that Lifan does in fact build their own engines and not Zongshen, anything said to the otherwise is misinformation. I just wanted to share that so there isn’t confusion about that.

[Thumper]

I am well aware that Lifan makes their own engines. My point is that the Lifan 172 is basically identical to the ZS172 series. And, that ZS172 (Zongshen) is considered durable and highly dependable.

And as I said it is good that Venom motorsports is holding Lifan's feet to the fire, but I am more concerned that this Lifan 172 would fail in the first place. The engine is essentially identical to the ZS172 engine. In fact, I would bet that many parts are interchangeable. If I bought a KPX250, I might want to make upgrades or replace parts. I wonder if, or which ZS172 engine parts are interchangeable? There is a huge aftermarket for the 172 series.

I am sorry if someone thought I suggested that Lifan installed a ZS172 in the KPX. It is indeed a LIFAN 172 engine, EFI modified (which does not affect the internals that apparently failed). This sounds like a transmission issue.

[herbie]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I am well aware that Lifan makes their own engines. My point is that the Lifan 172 is basically identical to the ZS172 series. And, that ZS172 (Zongshen) is considered durable and highly dependable.

And as I said it is good that Venom motorsports is holding Lifan's feet to the fire, but I am more concerned that this Lifan 172 would fail in the first place. The engine is essentially identical to the ZS172 engine. In fact, I would bet that many parts are interchangeable. If I bought a KPX250, I might want to make upgrades or replace parts. I wonder if, or which ZS172 engine parts are interchangeable? There is a huge aftermarket for the 172 series.

I am sorry if someone thought I suggested that Lifan installed a ZS172 in the KPX. It is indeed a LIFAN 172 engine, EFI modified (which does not affect the internals that apparently failed). This sounds like a transmission issue.

Okay, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying and didn’t want confusion on the engine comparison. Sorry about that!

[Thumper]

I also know that our members have experienced some issues with Zongshen engines. Some of these issues have happened at very low miles. We do NOT have statistics on fail rates, but one key sentence in my post was that Zongshen probably has more than 10x the number of units (engines) in service. 10x more than Lifan, that is.

They sell LOTS of engines!!!

Also, Zongshen allows rebranding, so Zongshen engines have other logos on them !! It is possible, in fact, that some engine internals in the Lifan engines come from Zongshen manufacturing plants.

The clue to detecting this is that the engine ID stamp shows ZS172-xxx, or ZS167-xxc, for instance as model number. Many of Zongshen's clients don't bother to rebrand. Zongshen just supplies the engines. Zongshen is literally the "Honda" (clones) of China.

It would be instructive to have real data on fail rates on engines that are NOT mistreated. We could do an anecdotal pole but it would hardly be representative

[Texas Pete]

Last time I looked it up Zongshen was claiming to manufacture 2 million motorcycles annually. That is not including engine sales to other brands. And Zongshen Industrial Group is mainly OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer). Is a manufacturer and business partner for many famous brands like: Piaggio, Selva, Harley Davidson, Barbieri, BMW. And leader on garden machines industry. On their website they say over 4 million motorcycle engines annually. They say they have over 200 spare parts manufacturers supporting them.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

Last time I looked it up Zongshen was claiming to manufacture 2 million motorcycles annually. That is not including engine sales to other brands. And Zongshen Industrial Group is mainly OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer). Is a manufacturer and business partner for many famous brands like: Piaggio, Selva, Harley Davidson, Barbieri, BMW. And leader on garden machines industry. On their website they say over 4 million motorcycle engines annually. They say they have over 200 spare parts manufacturers supporting them.

OK...It may be a conservative estimate that Zongshen makes/supplies more than 100x more engines worldwide than Lifan "assembles" for their product line. I suspect that Lifan is just a subcontractor for many of their engine components.

We know NOTHING about industry strife in China, and the quality control on contracts to subcontractors like Lifan. Conflicts can be regional, and in such a large manufacturing system, we have no idea of the relationship between cam makers, or crankshaft makers, or transmission part makers with their subcontract corps. Maybe they are getting top QC checked parts. Maybe there is no "politics" involved. It is a black box.

Sure. Make me laugh