Templar X 250

[Nutcracker]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Mine rolls back in gear (clutched). No resistence at all. It feels just like every other multidisk clutch motorcycle engine. This applies to both my 5 speed (ZS172FMM-3A) and 6 speed (ZS172FMM-5). Both are smooth and powerful, no odd noises.

Which engine is yours? Is your clutch engaging fully (cable tight enough). How about oil? What brand/kind and when did you change it last?

Just trying to get a baseline...

172FMM-3A engine. Oil is Rotella T4 1.2 quarts changed religiously. Clutch is adjusted correctly. It has happened to me a few times. Most recently it happened a couple of ways. After loosing traction due to steep incline and slipping the clutch to back down. Also did the same thing after stalling on an incline tried to walk it backwards and
caused a loud pop then started rolling. I can duplicate the not rolling backwards but the pop happens when it's been in a stressful spot to keep it upright.

[Texas Pete]

It is a proper technique for enduro riders to learn and to master clutch control on inclines including using it as both a brake and as a fractional brake to go backwards slowly.

That said I have not started practicing this with this bike as my incline is my driveway and I’m still a bit bashful trying stalls and drops on a cement driveway in front of the social media crowd in the neighborhood and become some sort of tik tok star

[Texas Pete]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker

I'm curious if anyone has noticed this bike does not like allowing the clutch to slip going backwards. Even at times it will not reverse until its in neutral. I've had some technical situations we're I get a very loud pop reversing the bike down a steep decent. Really scary last week this caused me to drop it due to compression braking loss.. Not sure how many pops I get before something breaks. Noise seems internal.

Additionally the motor has developed an ever so slight tapping noise coming from bottom end. The tapping only appears on steep decents mid RPM not using throttle. Bike has been great. Just hit the 2k mark.

I have just spent five minutes reversing my Templar X 250 down my driveway in first with partial using and clutch slipping to change the decent speed.


I have then stopped using brake and used clutch only and first gear to go up my driveway. Pause my speed on the driveway and go down my driveway under clutch control only.

No pops or noises or transmission issue. Repeated many times.

[tknj99]

Not sure why anyone would be engaging the clutch on a reverse descent.. disengage the clutch and use your brakes, otherwise burn your clutch if that's what you choose to do.. but i say, just don't!

[Zooker89]

Does anyone know what rear disk protectors may fit the X?

[Texas Pete]

Wet clutches in motorcycles are not dry clutches as in most cars. Doing this in a car or on a motorcycle that is built with a dry clutch it is definitely not recommended. Wet clutches have more power loss because they are bathed in oil but they won’t heat up or wear out as fast as a dry clutch under similar conditions. That said this is all technical riding technique and on the street I am definitely not technical riding there. Using brakes on an incline works for me just fine because on streets we have things called cars that can rear end you and need to see other things like brake lights to help ensure rider safety if drivers actually pay attention.. But if you are technical riding and only use say your front brake while going up a shear mountain edge like a billy goat under extreme enduro technical riding where brake lights are not needed as no cars are coming up the mountain rocks and crags being you and you use your front brake only and you start sliding backwards and off the edge you’ll be having a bad day. Clutch packs are consumables that get replaced but I’m not racing or technical riding so I’ll keep doing what I have been doing on the streets.

[Nutcracker]

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

I have just spent five minutes reversing my Templar X 250 down my driveway in first with partial using and clutch slipping to change the decent speed.


I have then stopped using brake and used clutch only and first gear to go up my driveway. Pause my speed on the driveway and go down my driveway under clutch control only.

No pops or noises or transmission issue. Repeated many times.

Appreciate your feedback.

I may have something binding or improperly adjusted.. Going to investigate closer. Hopefully it just chain binding. I have noticed the engine will spin backwards if clutch is let out slowly on a reverse decent. I can hear my starter winding. Could the starter be binding due to turning backwards? It does seem where the noise is coming from...

[Okierider]

6 speed guys: what sorts of cruising speeds are we seeing in 6th gear?
Or, for that matter, do we know the gear ratios for the tranny in the 6 speed?

[knwilson]

Hey all - I have been fighting some problems with the new bike. Everything was working well after assembly, but then yesterday I noticed it had leaked a good amount of gas the weekend while it was parked. Did a little checking and couldn't easily see a source so I just decided to ride for a bit and then turn the gas off and let it run empty prior to parking it again.

This is when the second problem popped up. I had a really hard time getting it started. I live in AZ and the temp was 45ish, but it simply would not start. Fought with it for a good 10-15 minutes. Had to let it rest a couple times as the battery was starting to die, but finally got it running. It wouldn't idle and I had to keep the choke on more than normal. Finally got to the point where I could just ride and let warm up more. After about 5 minutes riding around the yard, it just died. I wanted to get it running again in order to shut the gas off and let it run empty, but it wouldn't start again, so I just parked it. Went out this afternoon and sure enough, there is another puddle of gas under it that leaked out.

I have read through this entire thread and have heard of all sorts of different things from adjusting valves, manifold gasket/RTV, and throttle cable management to rejetting and/or replacing carb.

I am not super mechanical, but I can tackle all of these if needed, but I was hoping for some guidance or perhaps an order on which to attempt first for most probable cause...

Any feedback would be great...

[Huck369]

Originally Posted by knwilson

Hey all - I have been fighting some problems with the new bike. Everything was working well after assembly, but then yesterday I noticed it had leaked a good amount of gas the weekend while it was parked. Did a little checking and couldn't easily see a source so I just decided to ride for a bit and then turn the gas off and let it run empty prior to parking it again.

This is when the second problem popped up. I had a really hard time getting it started. I live in AZ and the temp was 45ish, but it simply would not start. Fought with it for a good 10-15 minutes. Had to let it rest a couple times as the battery was starting to die, but finally got it running. It wouldn't idle and I had to keep the choke on more than normal. Finally got to the point where I could just ride and let warm up more. After about 5 minutes riding around the yard, it just died. I wanted to get it running again in order to shut the gas off and let it run empty, but it wouldn't start again, so I just parked it. Went out this afternoon and sure enough, there is another puddle of gas under it that leaked out.

I have read through this entire thread and have heard of all sorts of different things from adjusting valves, manifold gasket/RTV, and throttle cable management to rejetting and/or replacing carb.

I am not super mechanical, but I can tackle all of these if needed, but I was hoping for some guidance or perhaps an order on which to attempt first for most probable cause...

Any feedback would be great...

It sounds like your float valve is sticking open in the carb....sometimes simply tapping on the carb will clear it, but if not, you'll need to open up the carb (or replace it)

[Zooker89]

Originally Posted by Huck369

It sounds like your float valve is sticking open in the carb....sometimes simply tapping on the carb will clear it, but if not, you'll need to open up the carb (or replace it)

I had this happen on another bike. It did exactly what was described and after I freed up the float, it ran perfect and didn't leak gas.

I also shut off the gas at the petcock after every ride, just in case...

[Texas Pete]

Originally Posted by Okierider

6 speed guys: what sorts of cruising speeds are we seeing in 6th gear?
Or, for that matter, do we know the gear ratios for the tranny in the 6 speed?

I am still breaking in my engine. The 6 speeds are relatively new imports so I have not heard of anyone done breaking in their engine and doing a flat out throttle speed test yet.

[Thumper]

OK. I was just plain wrong on this.

I took my 6 speed Temp X out (50 degrees out today ) and went to the store for a new 1.75L Evan Williams which I dropped into my pack, and drove towards home. I took a detour onto the berms in the exit ramp and with the engine warmed up, did some testing. On a steep but short incline, I allowed it to roll back and used the clutch to brake, over and over. I also used it to recover and wheelie over the top a few times. I also stopped on the steepest part and used the clutch to hold position, then allowed it to roll back, then used it as a brake a few times.

The clutch never complained at all. No weird noises, no chudder. Just smooth forward thrust.

So based on all of the "use of clutch" videos for off road use, and now my own testing (I don't believe much unless I experience it ), the design of the multiplate wet clutch is completely OK with using the engine to make the drive train go forward from forward but slow, stopped, or rolling in reverse. I am not the authority on this, just the student getting a lesson.

Apparently, these multiplate wet clutches are pretty durable under such abuse. The force is spread over LOTS of surface area. It makes sense from an engineering point of view.

Now, whether that works as engineered depends on the quality of the components, and if they are assembled, tensioned (to torque spec), and that the slipping surfaces are fabricated with good materials, and to spec.

So if it doesn't like it, there is something wrong

Who sez you can't teach an old dog new tricks?

And BTW, this thread is approaching 1000 posts. The Templar series has an average failure rate (problems on arrival, issues showing up within 500 miles), but the price/value calculation is holding up fo most people pretty well. For those that have issue right now, and need PSM to respond, good luck. I guess a crate bike is just a crate bike. There is some luck of the draw at play.

[Texas Pete]

Preliminary study of the light.
Musings of a curious mind.



Chip Scale Package is a new way they manufacture LED lights that no longer needs soldered wire connections (as used in SMD) which reduce thermal resistance, reduce heat transfer path, and reduce possible failure points and other things that only are a care to light nerds. CSP LEDs were initially used in mobile phone screen backlights and tablet computers where the properties they have for color consistency were leveraged.



Different classes of CSP LEDs:

• CSP 1860, which tolerates up to 30W of the power and gives out light for 8,000 lumens. It has the lowest cost in manufacturing.
• CSP 3570, which is one of the most used middle-end chips. It tolerates from 45W to 60W of the power with 10,000 lumens of the brightness.
• CSP 5530, which is the high-end chip. 60W of the power and 12,000 lumens of the brightness position it as a slightly expensive product.
• CSP 7545, which is a high-end chip for its 80W of power and 15,000 lumens of the brightness. Strict manufacturing arts makes it a high-end product.

The connector and bulb style used in the headlight:

• H4/9003/HB2 Hi/Lo

Looking at some CSP headlights such as this one:

• https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804655115390.html

LED lights can lose up to 50% or more of their light output from overheating. When first turned on most of these lights will output a spike in lumens that rapidly drops to a baseline (25% drop on average) of brightness output which is what is sustainable under active fan cooling. If you block the fan blades and allow the heat to build up you can measure a further drop off in brightness output.


I have not removed the headlight cowling assembly and done any further measurements for a while but when pondering the ability to actually fit lights such as these I do notice these styles of actively cooled LED lights have external controllers so that may give some flexibility in routing wires and ultimately fitting in a bulb.


They do have passively cooled H4/9003/HB2 Hi/Lo LED bulbs for less money, but these are mostly CSP 1860 low end LEDs. Products such as this one don't actually specify the CSP number of their LEDs which is annoying. Some will claim they use CSP 3570. I have not found any yet that claim CSP 5530 or higher.




Edit:
LED Geek Article https://www.ledsmagazine.com/leds-ss...uture-magazine

[Texas Pete]

I let my neighbor who is a motorcycle cop for the county sheriff take my Templar X 250 out for a spin to see how it handles after my suspension and transmission tweaks.


One feedback I got was he came up against the steering stop bolt limits while doing some figure eights out back of the school so time to get those adjusted for allowing more steering input.


One option is to remove the steering stop bolts entirely. Folks tend to think they will deform in a big crash and help protect the frame from getting damaged. Others tend to think in a big crash, no one is going to be repairing their bike isn't going to happen even if it was a Honda.






The other option is to run the steering stop bolts down to increase the steering throw to either side before full lock.





As can bee seen in the photograph above the other side steering lock bolt was run all the way down and this side when run down butted up against the other bolt before it could bottom out.


This distance would need to be split between both sides equally to have a setup where you still had steering stop bolts contacting the triple tee but had the most steering throw allowed without having to remove them entirely.





So I made some high tech home made tools to help clock the rotations on each bolt so that they were equal distance on each side while still butting up against each other.


Just a quick tip, put the mark on the sticky side of the tape so when turning with your fingers you don't wipe the ink reference mark off.