Has anyone tried enduro/cross country races on thier Chinabike?

TxTaoRider · 05-18-2021, 09:05 AM

In another thread there was a discussion about an endurance race with jumps and such that would probably be unsuitable for our hawk style bikes, but has anyone tried them in more enduro/cross country style races? Those dont usually rely on power as much as skill/luck/determination.

Around here we have organizations like TORN, TCCRA, and OCCRA. Personally I lack the skill (and luck and determination) to do it. But I think if you did it for fun or self satisfaction, or an inside bet with friends on similar bikes, it could be fun.

Skyd · 05-18-2021, 09:17 AM

I'm a SX/MX fan but personally I've never had the testicular fortitude to race or hit those huge jumps.

Enduro or GNCC style racing is more my speed as a rider although I've never actually tried it.

SO Maybe I'll take my Hawk to the next Erzburg Rodeo....HAHA, wouldn't that be something.

I have mixed thoughts on this. On the one hand, enduro racing has less jumps and they are smaller so suspension doesn't need to be as rugged. However, traversing rocky obstacles can give the bike a beating too, would be interesting to see how it would hold up.

I feel like a weak point on these bikes is the swingarm, I have no data for though other than looking at it and going....meh

Oh I wonder how the air cooled engine would hold up as well, some enduro riding is slow going.

wheelbender6 · 05-18-2021, 10:51 AM

Back in the 1970s, I knew people that did enduros on stock Japanese dual sports. I new from experience that they were not fast riders.
I think a China dual sport can do local enduro events if you ride within the design limits of that bike. If you ride it like it is a KTM, you probably will not finish the event. Just my 2 cents.

Piglife · 05-18-2021, 03:45 PM

I completely agree. I think my Hawk could do a comp enduro, and would be a ton of fun, but only within its designed capabilities. Even with the completed upgrades, and as much as I love this motorcycle, in no way is it a Japanese bike. Chinese bikes are a TON of fun and in my opinion worth the purchase; however (being realistic) I think anyone that tries to ride these bikes like a KTM or Honda Rally is only going to end up broke, bike and body.

franque · 05-18-2021, 05:29 PM

If you've heard of Dwight Rudder, who has written a ton on Thumper Talk about racing the XR200 (and I'm pretty sure he's Vet-A +65 class), he is now racing a GPX FSE250SE and making podium finishes, so there are Chinese bikes that are racing competitively, but GPXs are in a completely different class in terms of durability and quality.

Racing courses have become much more difficult and strenuous over the years, so comparing a '70s enduro racing in the '70s to racing today on modern courses isn't a fair comparison.

Even something competitive from that era, like a ČZ, Maico, or a Bultaco would not hold it's own with something modern without falling apart quickly.

The Hawk and TBR7 are basically copies of an XL185 frame from the 80s, that are likely no better quality, if not worse, than the original.

If it were a spec series, with racing courses adapted to the limitations of the machine, I wouldn't see any problem with it, but if anyone were trying to ride a modern course at more than a plonking page, I would expect the suspension and rider to be completely overwhelmed, and something would break very quickly.

To put it more succinctly, horses for courses.

If you think of these like a draft horse, and a KTM/Honda CRF-R as a race horse, you'd get an idea of their strengths and weaknesses. You wouldn't ask a race horse to pull a plow, nor would you run a draft horse in a race, but that doesn't mean either one is bad, they just play different roles. A 500exc wouldn't hold up to 3rd world service intervals without breaking, nor would a Hawk be able to run balls to the wall in a modern hare scramble without blowing out the shocks, forks, and wheels in no particular order.

TxTaoRider · 05-18-2021, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franque

If you've heard of Dwight Rudder, who has written a ton on Thumper Talk about racing the XR200 (and I'm pretty sure he's Vet-A +65 class), he is now racing a GPX FSE250SE and making podium finishes, so there are Chinese bikes that are racing competitively, but GPXs are in a completely different class in terms of durability and quality.

Racing courses have become much more difficult and strenuous over the years, so comparing a '70s enduro racing in the '70s to racing today on modern courses isn't a fair comparison.

Even something competitive from that era, like a ČZ, Maico, or a Bultaco would not hold it's own with something modern without falling apart quickly.

The Hawk and TBR7 are basically copies of an XL185 frame from the 80s, that are likely no better quality, if not worse, than the original.

If it were a spec series, with racing courses adapted to the limitations of the machine, I wouldn't see any problem with it, but if anyone were trying to ride a modern course at more than a plonking page, I would expect the suspension and rider to be completely overwhelmed, and something would break very quickly.

To put it more succinctly, horses for courses.

If you think of these like a draft horse, and a KTM/Honda CRF-R as a race horse, you'd get an idea of their strengths and weaknesses. You wouldn't ask a race horse to pull a plow, nor would you run a draft horse in a race, but that doesn't mean either one is bad, they just play different roles. A 500exc wouldn't hold up to 3rd world service intervals without breaking, nor would a Hawk be able to run balls to the wall in a modern hare scramble without blowing out the shocks, forks, and wheels in no particular order.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree we wouldn't be competitive with any dirtbikes made in the past 30 years.

The races they run around here are 40 minutes I think, without any man made jumps, mostly through trees. I think our bikes would hold up to it. And if you got a few guys on our style bikes, or even 1970s/early 80s bikes, the race would be between them and not the rest of the field.

I raced in a thing we had here called "Scramblecross" years ago on my Polaris outlaw w/IRS, I built for long trial rides not for jumping and sliding around corners. My buddy ran his scrambler 850 (big 4x4) just to give it a try. We were racing with guys who did this allot, on ktms,hondas,yamahas,kaws, tricked out race quads (I wore a Hawaiian shirt for giggles). We ran 3 motos and oddly we ended up not in last place. Some guys wrecked, broke, etc....we finished all 3 motos and had more fun than the rest of guys.

For me it's not about winning, heck I fall over riding around the yard. It's about comoradery and having fun.

XLsior · 05-18-2021, 08:32 PM

Not from any personal experience but I enjoy watching some motorcycle content on YT.
The sentiment for (cross training enduro) boils down to 80% rider 20% bike.
and (Torture Test Magazine) recently rode an Suzuki DR200 and podium finished a 24hr event against modern euro enduros...so 30year old tech beats the contemporaries.

So you might get a few wry looks at the event but if all goes tits up replacing a busted bike won't annihilate the wallet.

The look of buthurt from the other riders if you win though would be priceless...

Are the China bikes up to it? I think so but longevity might struggle. Basic mods like pegs, bars, swing arm etc seems expected, though just as likely on other bikes too.

the power to weight will never be amazing.

RedCrowRides · 05-18-2021, 10:00 PM

If you really want to seriously pursue this , you need to at least shoot for the RXB 250, EGL 250, etc which are half the cost of a GPX or Kayo but still far ahead of a TBR7 or Hawk in terms of build quality and design intended for hard off road use. The frame and suspension geometry as well as wheel sizing on the RXB and EGL are much more suited for offroad application .I'm not saying you cant do it on a Hawk , TBR, etc i am just saying you are going to have a much larger level of difficulty.

pete · 05-19-2021, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franque

Even something competitive from that era, like a ČZ, Maico, or a Bultaco would not hold it's own with something modern without falling apart quickly.

I have a 1979/80 Montesa 125 H6 Enduro , And had a 2011 Husaburg TE125 Enduro
"since sold" at the same time... both are 2t ...
I can not believe how we use to ride the 70s 2Ts they are really hard work compaired to the new bikes..
A China bike would be ok for the Clubmans class or what ever it is called over there..
Just stay away from the A grade/experts sections.. you should have a fun days riding ...

..

OneLeggedRider · 05-19-2021, 02:31 PM

You'd have to lace a japanese or Tusk rim on the front hub and upgrade to a brozz swingarm, and try to shave as much weight off of it as possible. But then you'd be in business.

TxTaoRider · 05-19-2021, 04:02 PM

Tell ya what guys (and girls), if any of you in the North Texas area wanna try running your hawk style bike, or some 1965-1985 dirtbike, in an CC style race around here, I'll join you. I wont be fast but I'll have fun.

Wild Dog · 05-19-2021, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyd

I feel like a weak point on these bikes is the swingarm, I have no data for though other than looking at it and going....meh

Oh I wonder how the air cooled engine would hold up as well, some enduro riding is slow going.

While it's a FAR CRY but KTM has the PDS and it works. Because it doesn't have linkage doesn't mean it will fail. The CG will survive and hold up quite well..

The real problem with these chinese enduro motorcycle is that they lack power next to their japanese or european counterpart. Plus they are heavier

Higher weight, less power = No fun if you want to compete.

Here a lot of people start to race with them, but the norm is that they after one season they switch to something more fitted for racing. Like a YZF 250 or similar

You can have fun with it, but is not going to be race.

05-18-2021, 09:05 AM	#1
TxTaoRider Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Flower Mound Texas Posts: 904	Has anyone tried enduro/cross country races on thier Chinabike? In another thread there was a discussion about an endurance race with jumps and such that would probably be unsuitable for our hawk style bikes, but has anyone tried them in more enduro/cross country style races? Those dont usually rely on power as much as skill/luck/determination. Around here we have organizations like TORN, TCCRA, and OCCRA. Personally I lack the skill (and luck and determination) to do it. But I think if you did it for fun or self satisfaction, or an inside bet with friends on similar bikes, it could be fun. __________________ 2021 Tao Tbr7 - "Lucille" Mods so far- Brozz swingarm, 21" front rim (Bridgestone Tw302 rear/Dunlop D606 front tires), Digital gauge cluster, pz30b pumper carb, after market hand guards, aftermarket brake and clutch levers, round fold away mirrors, Fly handlebars shortened slightly, 13t front sprocket 2009 Q-link Legacy 250 1982 Suzuki GS1100ES - "Jolene"
	1

05-18-2021, 09:17 AM	#2
Skyd Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 242	I'm a SX/MX fan but personally I've never had the testicular fortitude to race or hit those huge jumps. Enduro or GNCC style racing is more my speed as a rider although I've never actually tried it. SO Maybe I'll take my Hawk to the next Erzburg Rodeo....HAHA, wouldn't that be something. I have mixed thoughts on this. On the one hand, enduro racing has less jumps and they are smaller so suspension doesn't need to be as rugged. However, traversing rocky obstacles can give the bike a beating too, would be interesting to see how it would hold up. I feel like a weak point on these bikes is the swingarm, I have no data for though other than looking at it and going....meh Oh I wonder how the air cooled engine would hold up as well, some enduro riding is slow going. __________________ 2020 RPS Hawk 250 - Build thread can be found here: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=28374 "Do Wheelies and Forget your Feelies" "If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?" -unknown
	0

05-18-2021, 10:51 AM	#3
wheelbender6 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,902	Back in the 1970s, I knew people that did enduros on stock Japanese dual sports. I new from experience that they were not fast riders. I think a China dual sport can do local enduro events if you ride within the design limits of that bike. If you ride it like it is a KTM, you probably will not finish the event. Just my 2 cents. __________________ "Its not WHAT you ride; its THAT you ride"
	1

05-18-2021, 03:45 PM	#4
Piglife Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: New Mexico Posts: 24	Chinese bike enduro racing I completely agree. I think my Hawk could do a comp enduro, and would be a ton of fun, but only within its designed capabilities. Even with the completed upgrades, and as much as I love this motorcycle, in no way is it a Japanese bike. Chinese bikes are a TON of fun and in my opinion worth the purchase; however (being realistic) I think anyone that tries to ride these bikes like a KTM or Honda Rally is only going to end up broke, bike and body.
	1

05-18-2021, 10:00 PM	#8
RedCrowRides Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Florida Posts: 759	If you really want to seriously pursue this , you need to at least shoot for the RXB 250, EGL 250, etc which are half the cost of a GPX or Kayo but still far ahead of a TBR7 or Hawk in terms of build quality and design intended for hard off road use. The frame and suspension geometry as well as wheel sizing on the RXB and EGL are much more suited for offroad application .I'm not saying you cant do it on a Hawk , TBR, etc i am just saying you are going to have a much larger level of difficulty. __________________ 2001 Mustang GT 2004 Sportster 2018 VADER 2020 Orion RXB250L
	0

05-18-2021, 05:29 PM	#5
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	If you've heard of Dwight Rudder, who has written a ton on Thumper Talk about racing the XR200 (and I'm pretty sure he's Vet-A +65 class), he is now racing a GPX FSE250SE and making podium finishes, so there are Chinese bikes that are racing competitively, but GPXs are in a completely different class in terms of durability and quality. Racing courses have become much more difficult and strenuous over the years, so comparing a '70s enduro racing in the '70s to racing today on modern courses isn't a fair comparison. Even something competitive from that era, like a ČZ, Maico, or a Bultaco would not hold it's own with something modern without falling apart quickly. The Hawk and TBR7 are basically copies of an XL185 frame from the 80s, that are likely no better quality, if not worse, than the original. If it were a spec series, with racing courses adapted to the limitations of the machine, I wouldn't see any problem with it, but if anyone were trying to ride a modern course at more than a plonking page, I would expect the suspension and rider to be completely overwhelmed, and something would break very quickly. To put it more succinctly, horses for courses. If you think of these like a draft horse, and a KTM/Honda CRF-R as a race horse, you'd get an idea of their strengths and weaknesses. You wouldn't ask a race horse to pull a plow, nor would you run a draft horse in a race, but that doesn't mean either one is bad, they just play different roles. A 500exc wouldn't hold up to 3rd world service intervals without breaking, nor would a Hawk be able to run balls to the wall in a modern hare scramble without blowing out the shocks, forks, and wheels in no particular order.
	1

05-18-2021, 08:32 PM	#7
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,256	Not from any personal experience but I enjoy watching some motorcycle content on YT. The sentiment for (cross training enduro) boils down to 80% rider 20% bike. and (Torture Test Magazine) recently rode an Suzuki DR200 and podium finished a 24hr event against modern euro enduros...so 30year old tech beats the contemporaries. So you might get a few wry looks at the event but if all goes tits up replacing a busted bike won't annihilate the wallet. The look of buthurt from the other riders if you win though would be priceless... Are the China bikes up to it? I think so but longevity might struggle. Basic mods like pegs, bars, swing arm etc seems expected, though just as likely on other bikes too. the power to weight will never be amazing.
	1

05-19-2021, 02:31 PM	#10
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	You'd have to lace a japanese or Tusk rim on the front hub and upgrade to a brozz swingarm, and try to shave as much weight off of it as possible. But then you'd be in business. __________________ ~ Don't poke the bear ~ M.M.I. Dean's List graduate class of '95 and Specialty welder 2020 Ice Bear Terifecta 150cc Trike 2011 Honda Foreman 500ES 4x4 2001 Polaris Scrambler 400
	0

05-19-2021, 04:02 PM	#11
TxTaoRider Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Flower Mound Texas Posts: 904	Tell ya what guys (and girls), if any of you in the North Texas area wanna try running your hawk style bike, or some 1965-1985 dirtbike, in an CC style race around here, I'll join you. I wont be fast but I'll have fun. __________________ 2021 Tao Tbr7 - "Lucille" Mods so far- Brozz swingarm, 21" front rim (Bridgestone Tw302 rear/Dunlop D606 front tires), Digital gauge cluster, pz30b pumper carb, after market hand guards, aftermarket brake and clutch levers, round fold away mirrors, Fly handlebars shortened slightly, 13t front sprocket 2009 Q-link Legacy 250 1982 Suzuki GS1100ES - "Jolene"
	3