Warning! Do not take ibuprofen!

[GypsyR]

I had to look up "naturopath". Interesting. Apparently there are zero qualifications, standards, or licenses required to be one. So I can say I am a naturopath or herbalist and BAM! I am one. Just like that.

Versus the four years of college, four years of med school, and at least three years of residency required before one is licensed to practice in the science of medicine.

Fun thing about scientific stuff, it either works or doesn't. No need for us to believe or have faith in it one way or the other. That doesn't affect the results.
Just throwing in how I personally look at things. I don't expect everyone to think about things the way I do. The world would be terribly boring if it were that way.

[bigdano711]

Originally Posted by TominMO

I guarantee you it was not a panic attack. I am not at all prone to them. It was a purely physical event that came out of nowhere (I am also not prone to chest pains). And in fact I stayed pretty calm throughout.

It is possible that it was just severe chest pains that went on for about 30 minutes, then cleared up since I was laying down and resting. A heart attack warning sign, or precursor. But it had all the symptoms of a heart attack. Maybe an EKG etc would say otherwise, IDK. I still think it was caused by the ibuprofen and a congenital weakness in my heart, which has never been an issue before, even with plenty of heavy workouts in my life. This was the first time I have ever taken ibuprofen three days in a row. All I was doing was painting, pretty mild activity.

But here's the bottom line: I will not take prescription meds, and that's all doctors are good for basically. I refuse to get on the AMA's healthcare merry-go-round. So it makes no difference whether it was a heart attack or just severe prolonged chest pains. I have a naturopath/herbal medicine specialist I trust far more than the official medical profession. And given that I eat pretty healthy, I seriously doubt I have any blocked arteries.

Most people looking at me for the first time think I am 55 - 60, and about 95% of the time I move like I'm 35. I'm up on ladders, roofs, whatever it takes to get stuff done.

The key is prevention so you don't ever have to go on the merry-go-round. Lots of otherwise smart people don't get this.

Side note to Bigdano:
What we want is a system that gives the maximum amount of personal freedom (and requires the maximum amount of personal responsibility). That is the Constitution. Any system that starts with central control, not de-centralized like we have, will become oppressive in short order. That's just human nature. It's always the people least deserving of power who crave it, so we have to keep an eye on all politicians. If you can figure out something that works better than capitalism and still preserves personal freedoms, great.
Not meaning to turn this into a political thread.

I agree with just about everything, especially the not taking pills stuff. I don't live the healthiest or eat the healthiest, but I am absolutely not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of a pro-longed, painful death, but death itself? Nope. We all have an expiration date. Preventable? To a degree. Inevitable? Absolutely.


The Constitution is a document. Written by men, some of them teenagers, who had the ability to read and write. This ability was a massive advantage over the masses. Chomsky argues that it is designed to protect the rich few from the masses, and I'm inclined to agree. Especially when you see how the indigenous were, and continue to be, treated.


I'm not big on the Constitution, but does it even mention capitalism? I remember something about the freedom to pursue happiness....?

[Thumper]

I use ibuprofin daily. 65 years old. It helps me with the inflammation on my shoulders and knees. I take two x 200mg a couple times per night so I can use my knees when I get up. No issues. It can't make me whole, but it allows me to get around. It makes a difference.

Regarding my primary care physician... He is extremely knowledgeable. I trust him for diagnosis that he has expertise to deliver. He refers me for other things. I trust him implicitly to give me sound advice. We discuss things. He doesn't make any diagnosis or comment without listening to me. I trust him.

I agree that pharmaceutical industry need to be snubbed big time. Seriously.

[GypsyR]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I use ibuprofin daily. 65 years old. It helps me with the inflammation on my shoulders and knees.

I gave up on ibuprofen as a pain reliever. I don't think I've ever used it strictly for inflammation. I'll keep that in mind. It may yet have value for me.

[Fast_Freddy]

Aspirin. If you think you're having a heart attack, take some aspirin and see a doctor immediately. Regardless of your feelings about western medicine, there are many health issues that it can treat very effectively. Stents add years to people's lives, as can bypass surgery.

Instead of oral NSAIDs like ibuprofen, consider diclofenac gel (Voltaren) for chronic joint pain.

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by bigdano711

I agree with just about everything, especially the not taking pills stuff. I don't live the healthiest or eat the healthiest, but I am absolutely not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of a pro-longed, painful death, but death itself? Nope. We all have an expiration date. Preventable? To a degree. Inevitable? Absolutely.

Agreed! What we do or don't do can affect the expiration date. But yeah, inevitable.
Even during the heart attack I was not all that concerned. While I would love to hang around a few more decades, I'm not afraid of death, and was accepting that two days ago might be the day. Had I had a PANIC ATTACK and called 911, I'd probably now have a medical bill in the many thousands, between the EMTs, hospital care and testing. And for nothing, as it turned out.

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Aspirin. If you think you're having a heart attack, take some aspirin and see a doctor immediately. Regardless of your feelings about western medicine, there are many health issues that it can treat very effectively. Stents add years to people's lives, as can bypass surgery.

Aspirin is good, and even better is a few drops of cayenne extract, from the peppers. Burns like crazy, but my health store lady (70 YO looks like 55, been in this business forever) says it will stop a heart attack in seconds. I trust her like Thumper trusts his doctor. You stop the burning by eating a cracker, or something a little greasy like chocolate or a tortilla.

As far as stents and bypassing surgery, my point is that if people would just eat healthy (and doctors were focused on nutrition instead of symptom management), there would be no need for stents or surgery. Or almost all medications.

Guys let's stay away from politics from now on. Hate to get this thread deleted.

[bigdano711]

Joe Rogan recently did a podcast with a guy named Gary Brecka. That's how I learned about the cyanocobalamin. I like the dude because he is a human biologist, NOT a doctor. What he had to say made a lot of sense. He focuses a lot on diet and he has a test that will tell you what your body is deficient in and recommend specific supplements targeting those deficiencies.


I started late in the year, but I have been "grounding" at first light, taking off my shirt and getting sun and doing some simple breathing exercises. Grounding is exactly as it sounds; bare feet to bare earth or grass and literally grounding the electrical current running through our bodies. Only a few days and I can tell it's making a difference. Just wish the temps were above freezing in the mornings.

[bogieboy]

While i am an anti docter kind of guy, if not for western.medicine i wouldnt know i am leiden factor v, and would be dead over 10 yrs ago now.... i am a 3 time survivor of bilateral pulmonary emboli... and that only because of blood thinners.... my blood has a genetic predisposition to clotting, which means i am at major risk for heart attack, stroke or PEs.... if not for western medicine i would have died when i got the first round...

Probably not a bad idea to check in with a doctor... clot problems (like a heart attack) are not something to mess with at all.....

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by bogieboy

While i am an anti docter kind of guy, if not for western.medicine i wouldnt know i am leiden factor v, and would be dead over 10 yrs ago now.... i am a 3 time survivor of bilateral pulmonary emboli... and that only because of blood thinners.... my blood has a genetic predisposition to clotting, which means i am at major risk for heart attack, stroke or PEs.... if not for western medicine i would have died when i got the first round...

Probably not a bad idea to check in with a doctor... clot problems (like a heart attack) are not something to mess with at all.....

Not disagreeing with you or how you got your problem fixed. I will point out two things:
1. There is such a thing as epigenetics. This means that many health conditions lie dormant until triggered by poor nutrition (junk food, smoking, booze, other recreational drugs). If people didn't do those, they would not get medical conditions whose symptoms the medical establishment makes a lot of money from treating. Both good and poor health is (IMO) about 95% attributable to what we consume.
2. A good nutritionist and herbal wellness person could probably suggest natural remedies--not prescribing medication you understand, that would be illegal. More like a "try this, it works great for lots of people" situation. Just eating mostly healthy and taking a high quality vitamin/mineral formulation will do a lot. Then you supplement based on your particular situation.

3. Bonus point. The fact is that I am making a conscious decision to have nothing to do with the medical establishment (unless I get hit by a bus while crossing the street and texting, for example). I despise the corrupt racket that it is. While I'd like to live a long healthy life, I'll take health quality over longevity. Whatever anyone's religious beliefs are, or lack thereof, we all will die and it makes a lot of sense to come to terms with that.
I assure you that there are alternatives to the medical establishment that have high integrity.

Cue the Frank Sinatra song. You know which one.

[Bikenut]

I read this discussion and now I will toss in my 2 cents..... like it or don't... doesn't matter because I'm speaking for me and me alone.

Long ago I decided that since death was inevitable I only had two choices.. I could worry about my health taking great care of my body with eating healthy, exercising regularly, and avoiding any risky activities. Then one day I would die.

Or I could enjoy life with lots of great tasting food indulging in alcohol sometimes, lots of sex, riding my motorcycles, playing with my cars, and just actually living life without worrying about how long I might... or might not... live. And then one day I would die.

Well, I'm 75 years old and I'm still alive thanks to doctors using stents and a pacemaker. I've loved, been loved, still love deeply and am loved and still (thanks to doctors using modern surgical techniques) making love. I have, and still do, eat and drink what the hell ever I want when I want. I will have a drink occasionally and maybe more at home if I want. I ride sport bikes a bit too fast and take my cars on those same twisty roads often playing close to the edge. And one day I will die.

To each his own but when I do die I will know that........ I actually LIVED before I died.

[2LZ]

Croaked three times in one evening. Most peaceful place I've ever been. Not in a hurry to return because I know it's inevitable, and I still have shit to do here. As Bikernut says, it's all about living.

[TominMO]

@ Bikenut. I respect your decision because you made it consciously. Not just muddling through life like most people do. It's your life to live.

[Texas Pete]

All drugs have side effects. Every human has genetic differences to the next human. One side effect may affect one human but not another human. One side effect may be minor to one human but major to another human. Making blanket statements about to or not to use a drug because of the outcome for one human is not right. Warning someone of the possibilities is fine.

I just read a medical news article on SSRIs and since this country is in love with anti depressants I found it interesting that a listed side effect is loss of sexual desire. The article was about people who stopped taking SSRI medicines but permanently have the side effect of complete loss of libido for the remainder of their life. Now I don't post online everyone stop taking SSRIs because I understand it's a fixed chemical compound being used on an infinite variable mix of genetics individuals so individual results may vary.

[bogieboy]

Originally Posted by TominMO

Not disagreeing with you or how you got your problem fixed. I will point out two things:
1. There is such a thing as epigenetics. This means that many health conditions lie dormant until triggered by poor nutrition (junk food, smoking, booze, other recreational drugs). If people didn't do those, they would not get medical conditions whose symptoms the medical establishment makes a lot of money from treating. Both good and poor health is (IMO) about 95% attributable to what we consume.
2. A good nutritionist and herbal wellness person could probably suggest natural remedies--not prescribing medication you understand, that would be illegal. More like a "try this, it works great for lots of people" situation. Just eating mostly healthy and taking a high quality vitamin/mineral formulation will do a lot. Then you supplement based on your particular situation.

3. Bonus point. The fact is that I am making a conscious decision to have nothing to do with the medical establishment (unless I get hit by a bus while crossing the street and texting, for example). I despise the corrupt racket that it is. While I'd like to live a long healthy life, I'll take health quality over longevity. Whatever anyone's religious beliefs are, or lack thereof, we all will die and it makes a lot of sense to come to terms with that.
I assure you that there are alternatives to the medical establishment that have high integrity.

Cue the Frank Sinatra song. You know which one.

Not trying to argue or anything as i agree, 90% of americas health issues could be solved witha good diet and excersize....LOL however my case? First bout of PE was while training for a cross country bike ride...LOL talk about good eating and plenty of excersize....sometimes is just flat out (pardon the obvious pun here) bad blood lines....

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

All drugs have side effects. Every human has genetic differences to the next human. One side effect may affect one human but not another human. One side effect may be minor to one human but major to another human. Making blanket statements about to or not to use a drug because of the outcome for one human is not right. Warning someone of the possibilities is fine.

I just read a medical news article on SSRIs and since this country is in love with anti depressants I found it interesting that a listed side effect is loss of sexual desire. The article was about people who stopped taking SSRI medicines but permanently have the side effect of complete loss of libido for the remainder of their life. Now I don't post online everyone stop taking SSRIs because I understand it's a fixed chemical compound being used on an infinite variable mix of genetics individuals so individual results may vary.

Yeah, I did overreact a bit. You are right about the variance in how food/drugs affect people differently. But given that I thought I had just had a heart attack, maybe it's understandable. The important thing is bringing to peoples' attention that there are side effects of drugs, and for that matter food ingredients.

It happened again today. Not so much the vise-like feeling on my heart, but the chest pain. Caused by moving around a bunch of stuff in the garage--even worked up a bit of a sweat. Classic trigger for angina if you have a blocked coronary artery. Was OK after 30 minutes of rest. Did some research, and now think I haven't had any heart attacks, it was angina pectoris (i.e. chest pain). This comes from a partial blockage to one/both arteries sending blood from the heart. Took a baby aspirin afterwards to thin out the blood a bit. Will get some willow bark pills (basically old-school aspirin, without stomach irritation). I had already gotten a supplement specifically for heart health.

Another cause might be palm oil. For a few months I have been eating pretty regularly an almond butter that unbeknownst to me (didn't read the label) had palm oil in it. This is bad for cholesterol levels, and high cholesterol is no bueno for the heart. So out it goes.

So once I straighten out the diet and get the right supplements, I will monitor how I feel with various levels of exercise. After giving the body some time to sort itself out.

Recommend this book. I have an older copy. https://www.amazon.com/Prescription-...ks%2C98&sr=1-1