Overtightened oil filter cover screw on zong

[Vash]

Anyone else experience this?
I removed the cover of the oil filter, cleaned and replaced it all yesterday during my oil change. Upon replacing the oil filter and cover i spaced out and tightened the bottom screw so hard that it will no longer torque to a tightness, it basically spins freely but is not "loose" by any means. It still must be unscrewed to remove, however I'm unsure if this now compromises the air tight nature of the oil filter cover. also after the incident i took the screw out to find a small bit of metal wound around a few threads, the screw was not damaged but certainly the internal threads took a hit.

suggestions? :roll:

Vash

[Weldangrind]

It sounds like the hole is aluminum, and the threads are no longer useable.

One option is to drill and tap the hole to a larger size. As an example, if the current bolt is 8mm in diameter, maybe you could drill out the hole to accept a 10mm bolt. Search Google for a tap and die chart, and drill out the hole to the appropriate size, then tap the hole to accept the new bolt. You'll also need to drill out the oil filter cover and the gasket hole will need to be enlarged.

Another option is a thread insert (one brand is Helicoil). You buy a package that contains the required tap and inserts, and then you simply drill and tap the hole to the size stated in the instructions. Once the hole is drilled and tapped, a steel threaded insert is screwed into the hole to accept the factory size original bolt.

Whichever option you choose, be sure to not drill beyond the exisitng hole depth; you sure don't want to poke through the case. Also, make sure to use compressed air or a Shop Vac to clean debris out of the hole after drilling.

Finally, anti-seize compound on the bolts will help prevent pulled threads in the future. This applies to any steel bolt in aluminum. Good luck!

[FastDoc]

Are there 2 or 3 screws on a Zong's oil filter cover? If its 3 and it does not leak I'd leave it as is and keep an eye on it. If it's only 2 chances are it will leak.

Remove the cover, drill the hole in the engine out to the next biggest size and tap it and replace the screw with the next size up.

An alernitive would be a helicoil but I think this suggestion is easier.

Use the services of a local machine shop if you are not confident in your ability to make this repair.

Be very diligent to not get metal chips in the oil gallery.

There are small STEEL screws in an ALUMINUM engine. Be very careful about overtorquing them.

[Vash]

Thanks for the great info guys. I don't have any experience with that procedure so I'm hoping i can find someone who can do it right. The oil filter cover does have 3 screws but it seems like it is indeed leaking ever so slightly when the engine is running. This is good information for all zong owners to know.
"do not over tighten oil filter cover screws"

[FastDoc]

Holy cow W&G you and I came up with exactly the same answer at the same time. You were 2 minutes ahead of me! Great minds think alike!

[FastDoc]

Originally Posted by Vash

Thanks for the great info guys. I don't have any experience with that procedure so I'm hoping i can find someone who can do it right. The oil filter cover does have 3 screws but it seems like it is indeed leaking ever so slightly when the engine is running. This is good information for all zong owners to know.
"do not over tighten oil filter cover screws"

It could have happened on any bike just as easily.

When I tighten little 8mm bolts into aluminum I hold the socket wrench by the center, not the handle and use it more like a nutdriver. This reduces the chance or overtorquing, but even with this technique one needs to be careful.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by Vash

Anyone else experience this?
I removed the cover of the oil filter, cleaned and replaced it all yesterday during my oil change. Upon replacing the oil filter and cover i spaced out and tightened the bottom screw so hard that it will no longer torque to a tightness…

Vash, did you strip the bolt shown inside the orange circle in the photograph below?



If you stripped this bolt, you are not the first person to do so. Unfortunately, you damaged the most critical of the three bolts. I caution you not to ride your Zong until you complete your repair. If you ride your bike in this condition you might experience a catastrophic loss of engine oil, as shown in post #63 of the following thread. :(

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=371656&page=5



This particular bolt, part #13 in the parts diagram shown in the link below, is different from the other bolts. This bolt has a larger shank, and passes by an oil passage in the right crankcase cover. As you will note, this bolt has a separate O-ring to help seal the oil passage.

http://www.cyclepartswarehouse.com/f...009&fveh=28571

Originally Posted by Vash

Thanks for the great info guys. I don't have any experience with that procedure so I'm hoping i can find someone who can do it right. The oil filter cover does have 3 screws but it seems like it is indeed leaking ever so slightly when the engine is running. This is good information for all zong owners to know.
"do not over tighten oil filter cover screws"

If I were going to make this repair, I would drain the engine oil and remove the right crankcase cover. The repair will be far easier, and safer to accomplish with the crankcase cover removed. Also, after removing the crankcase cover, you can take the damaged part to a machinist, and keep you motorcycle safe, and secure, at home.

However, considering the cost of time, and materials required to repair the stripped thread, I would seriously consider buying a complete right crankcase cover. The Yamaha equivalent part #15A-15431-01-00 costs $61.61.

http://www.cyclepartswarehouse.com/f...009&fveh=28571

If you can acquire the Zongshen part, it probably costs even less. I would also order the right crankcase cover gasket, Yamaha part #4BE-15462-00-00, which costs $8.25.

Spud

[phil]

ill look tomorrow theres a outside chance i have one i know i have the other side

[TurboT]

My guess, as crappy as this sounds, is that buying a new cover is probably cheaper than fixing those threads.

Since you don't have the helicoil kit, you'll have to buy it to do it yourself. I haven't priced out helicoil kits in a while, but I think they were 30-40 bucks a few years back. That is if you can find the right thread pitch. Not doing this yourself before, it's a bit risky, and you could end up messing up your cover anyhow. You'll have to drill it and tap it straight. Being aluminum, it cuts real easy! (Meaning easy to tip the drill)

A machine shop will more than likely charge you an hour shop rate to fix the hole. Probably minimum $65/hr, plus a fee for the helicoil insert.

My YZ has a problem with the same hole. Whether I did it myself, or it was a bit dodgy when I bought it, I don't know. Since I have many moons in a machine shop, I was able to do a 'back yard' repair on it, but it did concern me drilling it out while on the bike still. (which I didn't do)

It's a real easy to do stupid 'oops' that is going to have you swearing a bit I'm sure..but it can be fixed a number of ways.

[alan566]

Do you guys think this would work? I don't see why it wouldn't work since it doesn't require much torque for theses bolts. i woould try it and watch it before i bought a new crankcase cover. but take this for what its worth because i always take the shortcuts if i looks like it would work. You should be able to get the loctite at any auto parts store.

http://www.drillspot.com/products/44...ead_Repair_Kit

I saw this also.

http://www.timesert.com/

[MICRider]

Originally Posted by alan566

Do you guys think this would work? I don't see why it wouldn't work since it doesn't require much torque for theses bolts. i woould try it and watch it before i bought a new crankcase cover. but take this for what its worth because i always take the shortcuts if i looks like it would work.

http://www.drillspot.com/products/44...ead_Repair_Kit

I saw this also.

http://www.timesert.com/

It might work, though I have tried a few liquid steel type fixes and such for stripped threads and they always pulled out again. I think Turbo and Spud have the right idea... In the long run it would probably be safer/cheaper just to replace the crankcase side cover. And if Phil has a Zong one, it is probably a bit cheaper than the Yamaha one? The last time I priced out a helicoil repair kit (though it was for a spark plug), it was $60 plus by itself.

[Vash]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

Vash, did you strip the bolt shown inside the orange circle in the photograph below?

Yep, That's the little evil one! :evil:

Originally Posted by SpudRider

If you stripped this bolt, you are not the first person to do so. Unfortunately, you damaged the most critical of the three bolts. I caution you not to ride your Zong until you complete your repair. If you ride your bike in this condition you might experience a catastrophic loss of engine oil, as shown in post #63 of the following thread. :(

Wow, shocking! I'm very grateful to have this knowledge, I will definitely not be driving it anywhere.

Originally Posted by SpudRider

This particular bolt, part #13 in the parts diagram shown in the link below, is different from the other bolts. This bolt has a larger shank, and passes by an oil passage in the right crankcase cover. As you will note, this bolt has a separate O-ring to help seal the oil passage.

Again, I am always surprised at how much you seem to know about everything lol 8O

Originally Posted by SpudRider

If I were going to make this repair, I would drain the engine oil and remove the right crankcase cover. The repair will be far easier, and safer to accomplish with the crankcase cover removed. Also, after removing the crankcase cover, you can take the damaged part to a machinist, and keep you motorcycle safe, and secure, at home.

However, considering the cost of time, and materials required to repair the stripped thread, I would seriously consider buying a complete right crankcase cover. The Yamaha equivalent part #15A-15431-01-00 costs $61.61.

I like the idea of replacing the crankcase cover in the interest of saving time and effort. I'd also like to know, before i remove the cover.. is there anything unexpected that may fall out??? I just don't want to loose, move, or damage anything else in the process of the repair and I'm not yet familiar with all of the engines components. As usual its Spud, fastdoc, and W&G to the rescue with all the right answers. Thanks guys!

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by Vash

...I like the idea of replacing the crankcase cover in the interest of saving time and effort. I'd also like to know, before i remove the cover.. is there anything unexpected that may fall out??? I just don't want to loose, move, or damage anything else in the process of the repair and I'm not yet familiar with all of the engines components. As usual its Spud, fastdoc, and W&G to the rescue with all the right answers. Thanks guys!

You’re welcome, Vash.

If I were making this repair, I would try to get a Zongshen, right crankcase cover from Phil; the Zongshen part should cost much less than the Yamaha part. If Phil can’t get the part, or the price is not competitive, I would buy the Yamaha, right crankcase cover. Also, please remember, you will need to order a right crankcase cover gasket.

Page 55 of your Zongshen Motorcycle Maintenance Manual describes the process of removing the right crankcase cover. The same procedure is also covered on page 4-8 of the Yamaha, TW200 Service Manual. You will need to remove the kick start lever before you remove the right crankcase cover. However, I don’t see any “booby traps” you need to be wary of when removing this cover.

Personally, I definitely would not try any cheap fixes for this repair. A cheap fix could fail unexpectedly, at any time, leaving you stranded without any engine oil. 8O

Please keep us updated regarding your progress with this repair. Rest assured, we will be happy to answer your questions as the repair progresses. Also, it would be wonderful if you could take some photographs during the repair. I think this thread has the makings of a very good “Zong Stickie.”

Spud

[FastDoc]

Replacing the cover is the way to go. Sorry I did not think of that first.

Being a CB cheapie I know I have the tools and knowledge on hand to drill and tap it for free, but I'd consider $60 a cheap fix to get a new cover.

[TurboT]

Timeserts are the shizzle.

They work and hold way better than a Helicoil... they also come with a price, they are not cheap.

I'd recommend time serts over helicoils anytime, if you have access to them.
Not sure it's a repair I'd recommend on this instance though.