opinions and facts witch is better and why 163fml or 169fm

recracer · 02-21-2011, 02:00 PM

The 163fml is overhead valves (pushrod )and the 169fml is overhead cam . anyone had both ?

FastDoc · 02-21-2011, 02:29 PM

I've had both. The OHC is much better. That's what I have in The Dirt Rat.

The OHV revs more freely, has a higher redline, makes more seat of the pants power (by a considerable margin), and is a much more faithful Honda clone.

Nothing wrong with the OHV, but the OHC is much better IMHO. :wink:

recracer · 02-21-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

I've had both. The OHC is much better. That's what I have in The Dirt Rat.

The OHV revs more freely, has a higher redline, makes more seat of the pants power (by a considerable margin), and is a much more faithful Honda clone.

Nothing wrong with the OHV, but the OHC is much better IMHO. :wink:

Doc Does the Dirt Rat sport the 163 , 167 . or 169 version . yes i'm finding a 167fml listed as a 200cc as well . getting very confusing . i do agree that given the same bore and stroke ,the over head cam engine ,will have less frictional loss of power .

FastDoc · 02-21-2011, 10:48 PM

The Dirt Rat has a 163 FML. Just checked.

Barnone · 02-22-2011, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

The Dirt Rat has a 163 FML. Just checked.

FD,
My Bobber has a 167FMM engine. Do you know what Honda model and year it was cloned from?
Thanks,

FastDoc · 02-22-2011, 04:00 PM

No idea, but except for the electric starter and a 5 (vs 6) speed it seems identical to the 1983 motor that came out of the bike.

JTCAndrew · 02-22-2011, 04:01 PM

Barnone found some ref here:

http://www.chinariders.net/modules.p...wtopic&t=10237

Andrew

recracer · 02-23-2011, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnone

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

The Dirt Rat has a 163 FML. Just checked.

FD,
My Bobber has a 167FMM engine. Do you know what Honda model and year it was cloned from?
Thanks,

Your 167fmm is that 229cc ? i finding it very hard to find reliable info on all these different models .

Barnone · 02-23-2011, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recracer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnone

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

The Dirt Rat has a 163 FML. Just checked.

FD,
My Bobber has a 167FMM engine. Do you know what Honda model and year it was cloned from?
Thanks,

Your 167fmm is that 229cc ? i finding it very hard to find reliable info on all these different models .

Yes, the 167FMM engine on my bobber is the push rod 229cc which i now think is the bored and stroked Honda CG125 engine but I could be wrong. The engine does not have the kick starter but have the oil sight glass and a dip stick. Kinda weird?

I agree about the difficulty of finding reliable info on these Chinese clones.

Barnone · 02-23-2011, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTCAndrew

Barnone found some ref here:

http://www.chinariders.net/modules.p...wtopic&t=10237

Andrew

Andrew, thanks for the lead. I think I have found the right front sprocket with some help from the guys on MyChinaMoto.

Kawazacky · 02-23-2011, 03:46 PM

I am a fan of the pushrod motor, simply because it's.... simple.

I loved my GY-5's simplicity. In fact, I think the CG125-derived pushrod motor would be a great basis for a RTW bike - you'd just have to budget a lot more time. But spare parts are everywhere, and in much of the third world, would be far cheaper and more available than any other option.

Weldangrind · 02-23-2011, 07:03 PM

Kawazacky, thanks for that info. I've never heard of that bike, and the motor is certainly similar to the pushrod 200 in my atv. I was never sure if the pushrod motor was a clean slate or not, but I always suspected not.

Kawazacky · 02-23-2011, 08:17 PM

It's pretty well accepted that the Chinese engines are all derived from the Honda CG125. I don't know how many parts will interchange... but they look identical from the outside, almost. I don't think the CG125 had the counterbalancer, at least not at first.

Edit: I shouldn't say all Chinese engines. The Zongshen Sierras are Yamaha-derived, and the Quinqi are Suzuki-based. The original Lifanoids were all pretty much Honda-based, though, as far as I can tell.

Check out the Feb. Cycle World for a bike with this engine... The Cleveland Cycle Works bobber. I'm surprised there wasn't more of a stir over this China bike article.

Weldangrind · 02-23-2011, 09:14 PM

This is the third China bike forum that I've been active on (the other two have disappeared), and I don't recall ever hearing that model designation. I've studied the pushrod engine (I have two of them), and I've never happened upon anything that looks like them.

Thanks again.

Barnone · 02-23-2011, 09:17 PM

Kawa,
"Check out the Feb. Cycle World for a bike with this engine... The Cleveland Cycle Works bobber. I'm surprised there wasn't more of a stir over this China bike article."

We been talking about a similar bike (same engine) and the Cycle World article over here
http://www.chinariders.net/modules.p...wtopic&t=11299

and here

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...F250RTB-Bobber

and I went and bought one.

02-21-2011, 02:00 PM	#1
recracer Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Charles Town W.V. Posts: 849	opinions and facts witch is better and why 163fml or 169fm The 163fml is overhead valves (pushrod )and the 169fml is overhead cam . anyone had both ?
	0

02-21-2011, 02:29 PM	#2
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	I've had both. The OHC is much better. That's what I have in The Dirt Rat. The OHV revs more freely, has a higher redline, makes more seat of the pants power (by a considerable margin), and is a much more faithful Honda clone. Nothing wrong with the OHV, but the OHC is much better IMHO. :wink: __________________ Happy to serve.
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02-21-2011, 10:48 PM	#4
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	The Dirt Rat has a 163 FML. Just checked. __________________ Happy to serve.
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02-22-2011, 04:00 PM	#6
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	No idea, but except for the electric starter and a 5 (vs 6) speed it seems identical to the 1983 motor that came out of the bike. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

02-22-2011, 04:01 PM	#7
JTCAndrew Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Jamestown, PA Posts: 589	167FML Barnone found some ref here: http://www.chinariders.net/modules.p...wtopic&t=10237 Andrew
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02-23-2011, 03:46 PM	#11
Kawazacky Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Saint John, N.B. Posts: 279	I am a fan of the pushrod motor, simply because it's.... simple. I loved my GY-5's simplicity. In fact, I think the CG125-derived pushrod motor would be a great basis for a RTW bike - you'd just have to budget a lot more time. But spare parts are everywhere, and in much of the third world, would be far cheaper and more available than any other option.
	0

02-23-2011, 07:03 PM	#12
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Kawazacky, thanks for that info. I've never heard of that bike, and the motor is certainly similar to the pushrod 200 in my atv. I was never sure if the pushrod motor was a clean slate or not, but I always suspected not. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
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02-23-2011, 08:17 PM	#13
Kawazacky Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Saint John, N.B. Posts: 279	It's pretty well accepted that the Chinese engines are all derived from the Honda CG125. I don't know how many parts will interchange... but they look identical from the outside, almost. I don't think the CG125 had the counterbalancer, at least not at first. Edit: I shouldn't say all Chinese engines. The Zongshen Sierras are Yamaha-derived, and the Quinqi are Suzuki-based. The original Lifanoids were all pretty much Honda-based, though, as far as I can tell. Check out the Feb. Cycle World for a bike with this engine... The Cleveland Cycle Works bobber. I'm surprised there wasn't more of a stir over this China bike article.
	0

02-23-2011, 09:14 PM	#14
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	This is the third China bike forum that I've been active on (the other two have disappeared), and I don't recall ever hearing that model designation. I've studied the pushrod engine (I have two of them), and I've never happened upon anything that looks like them. Thanks again. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
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02-23-2011, 09:17 PM	#15
Barnone Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,354	Kawa, "Check out the Feb. Cycle World for a bike with this engine... The Cleveland Cycle Works bobber. I'm surprised there wasn't more of a stir over this China bike article." We been talking about a similar bike (same engine) and the Cycle World article over here http://www.chinariders.net/modules.p...wtopic&t=11299 and here http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...F250RTB-Bobber and I went and bought one.
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