Starter Problems

[RPM]

I can only speak for the Lifans, but should be the same setup.
There is only one fuse and it is the one near the battery. If it is good, then you will need to check the voltage to the starter as you press the start button and see what you get. If that shows current, then you have a bad starter. If no current, check the wires at the starter relay (follow the wire from the starter back) and look for a bad connection. You can test the relay by placing a screwdriver between the two terminals to get the current to cross, Carefull ... use an insulating handle or you will get a jolt. Being that you have a good battery. If you get it started this way, then most likely it is a bad relay.

If all looks good, then you most likely have a bad kill. If water gets in the switch, it will tend to carode the terminals and prevent the contacts to work. Pull the switch off the handlebars and see what you have there.[/b]

[culcune]

Not to simplify, but hopefully its the case, but my lights/horn, turn signals all worked, but my battery was drained. Charged it up, and it ran like new. (see my previous post). In other words, make sure your battery has full power. (I thought something was wrong, too, as everything worked at first. Eventually, it all died, but when it was drained too much, I thought it was making strange noises and I thought the worst, but it was just a battery).

[Penguini66]

My starter started to make funny noises yesterday. It was kind of like it wanted to start but wouldn't. Then it would work. Later last night, it finally quit on me.

I replaced the battery with a good sealed motorcycle battery a few weeks ago so I'm hoping that isn't the problem but who knows.

Oddest thing though...Right at the exact same time that my starter quit working, my winker beeper started working again. The beeper hasn't worked since sometime mid last summer. I kick started it all last year because I never got the original battery to hold a charge so, again, who knows. I'm betting/guessing I have a loose wire or bad connection/short of some sort.

To Recap:

Day 1 a year ago: Put bike together with initial battery. Electric starter and battery worked fine.

Day 2: Battery quit working. Switched to kick start and used that all last summer/fall. Tried to charge it with no success.

Sometime during the summer: Beeping winkers quit working. Winkers still worked...just no beep.

This spring: Finally broke down and bought a new sealed battery ($40!). Starter worked perfectly but still no beeping winkers.

This past weekend: Starter didn't seem to want to work all that well. Would occasionally not want to start/turn over the bike on first try.

Last night: Hit the starter and NOTHING. Only a slight "buzzing" sound. Reverted to the kick starter and it started up fine. Then at the next intersection I put on the turn signal and my beeping winker was back.

WTF Mate?

[zacstewart]

Originally Posted by Penguini66

My starter started to make funny noises yesterday. It was kind of like it wanted to start but wouldn't. Then it would work. Later last night, it finally quit on me.

Mine's making a strange sound as well. I'm not even sure if it's the starter or what, but when I start it cold it always makes this sort of buzzing/screaming sound. The sort of sound you'd expect from a shot bearing that's turning fast. Once it starts up it's fine though.

[ob1]

Next time you charge the battery, start the engine with the starter, turn it off, then read the battery voltage with a volt meter. With the volt meter attached, start the engine again with the starter. You should see 13-14 volts with the engine running, tells you the charging system is working.

There are 2 sides to the starting circuit; low amperage and high amperage. The low amp side activates the starter solenoid, which is the main switch in the high amp side.

The low amp side can have standard connection problem issues, while the high amp side has them AND more sensitivity to to them. Check the connections at the starter, solenoid and battery for tightness, corrosion and the terminal connections themselves. The higher amperage will take any small problem and make it worse due to the high current flowing through it.

The solenoid is the weak point, having a connection that arcs as the switch is closed. You cant see it or clean it. If parts are a problem, a lawn tractor solenoid can be made to work, quite easily.

[Penguini66]

Thanks OB1, I'll try and look at it some night this week. I left it at home today because I didn't want to ride it if I have a potential electrical problem and would hate to be stranded 20 miles from home.

Now that I think about it, last night in the dark, I noticed that the lights got very dim when I shut the bike off. Perhaps the battery isn't charging. Guess I'll have to get the multi-meter out.

Oh, and I did read about your lawn mower solenoid fix. I assume you got that to work?

[fatboy250]

Could also be a bad regulator/rectifier. This would give similar symptoms. Remember the electical system on your bike is DC however your altenator is creating AC power. If your regulator/rectifier is bad you will be getting bad current to you starter, battery, etc.

Anybody with more knowledge on this chime in. I've only had to deal with this on one bike that I've had in the past.

Jason

[Penguini66]

Yea, I was thinking a bad regualtor as well. I'll report back soon on the electrical test and we'll see if we can diagnose it.

[ob1]

Yea, a lawn tractor solenoid is a good replacement. The low amp side is nice and low{ doesnt require a lot of amps to close the switch}, and the high amp side is more than able to handle the storter motor's current demands.

Double check all your connections before labelling any part faulty.

[Penguini66]

Had an hour or so to look at the bike tonight. Didn't have time to charge the battery but here's my results.

With the engine off, battery reads 11.9-12.0 V.
With the engine running, battery reads 13-14 V.

Here's what's really confusing me. With the bike not running: If I jump the terminals on the solenoid/relay, I see a spark but the starter does nothing. If I press the starter button, the solenoid "buzzes" but the starter does nothing. If I press the horn button, it beeps proudly. Turn on the headlight and it appears to work fine (althoug it was light out and I couldn't tell how bright it was). That was when I first started fiddling with the bike tonight.

Now, after tinkering with it for an hour or so and taking it for a 15 minute ride to fill up the tank. With the bike not running: The starter button no longer "buzzes" the solenoid. The horn makes barely a slight sound and the lights do not work at all. Its dark out and I can see that the lights are not on at all. But with the bike running, horn and lights seem to work fine.

I'm guessing that my battery is dead and needs charged. My question is, Why? It is a bran new sealed battery. It worked great for about 2 weeks and a few hundred miles. I can only assume that it is not charging properly. Any thoughts?

Just a few sidenotes: I did pull the wire off the starter and clean it up to make sure it was getting a good connection. Not that that really matters if the battery is dead. I also pulled apart many of the connectors to make sure there were good connections.

Lastly, this same thing happened with my original battery except it didn't last nearly as long. Only about 1 day if I remember. Am I doing something grossly wrong? When I bought this new battery, they told me that it was fully chaged and ready to go. I put it in and the bike started right up.

Any thoughts or tips would be greatly appreciated and sorry for the long post.

EDIT: Hey, I just thought of one more thing. When I ride, I always ride with the headlight on. Usually on the low setting. Last night before the battery died/starter quit working, it was dark out and I was running with the high beam on. Also, tonight when I went for my 15 minute ride to fill up with gas, I rode with the light on high beam. Could it be possible that the stator simply doesn't put out enough juice to charge the battery AND run the lights? In other words, maybe the reason that these have a "running light" setting is that you are supposed to only use the head lights when necessary in order to preserve/charge the battery. So you run the bike with only the running lights on most of the time and hopefully don't have to ride in the dark much? Seems crazy to me but you never know with these things. Or does everybody else run with the headlight on all the time with no issues?

[msRandi]

when its runing with the lights on what is the battery volts? if less that 12.5 volts your right. you need cut down the power drain from the light or look for a short. I would be looking for a short. but qustion 2 when you park the bike dos the battery loss volts with every thing off? if yes check the rectifer. hope some of that helps.

[Penguini66]

I'll have to do a more thourough check on voltages and report back. Engine on no lights. Engine on with running light. Engine on with low beam on. Engine on with high beam on. Etc... I'll also check to see if it looses any voltage overnight.

What makes this hard is that: 1) I don't have a garage. The bike is parked on the street in front of our townhouse. Makes it kind of akward to hook up a battery charger overnight. 2) I ride it to work nearly every day and I don't usually have time in the morning to mess with anything so most work has to wait until the weekend. That is, if I have nothing else around the house that needs done.

Guess for the time being I'm back to the old kick starter. Which is fine with me. I rode all last summer without a working battery/starter so its nothing new for me. Plus, with the carb clip adjustment and a new plug, it now starts much easier.

To tell you the truth, I'm far from an expert when it comes to electrical stuff. Give me anything mechanical and I can figure it out. But electrical I typically avoid like the plague and/or just start replacing crap.

[mblas3]

Mine had a bad ground connection under the seat. You might check your grounds under the seat and on the starter. From what I can tell theses bikes uses a frame ground on the stator.

Mark

[fatboy250]

Originally Posted by Penguini66

Or does everybody else run with the headlight on all the time with no issues?

Not only do I run mine all the time, but I always run the high beam with the upgraded 45W bulb. I don't think that's your problem. Sorry, I know this is frustrating. I hope you're able to figure it out (with some help from the CR crew)

Jason

Eliminate the battery first, charge it with the terminals not connected to the bike and then let it set a few hours and cool completely down.

If it's not showing 12.5-12.8 or so thats most likely the problem. 11.9-12.0 is indicative of an internal short or partially dead cell.