The New KTM look-a-like - Page 3

DesertDog · 04-29-2008, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srreynolds2003

Desert dog is it either of these bikes??

http://vehicle.manufacturer.globalso...GetProduct.htm

http://vehicle.manufacturer.globalso...GetProduct.htm

looks the same to me ? i was only given the one photo and the specs
why must you ask,?

DesertDog · 04-29-2008, 12:45 AM

so i am to under stand that everyone here likes shineray ,(alot) ? yes.
i wont get these XTM's if no one wants them or interested in them. i dont want a 36k inventory, and just looky-loo's at the store.
so is there no one from the west to speak up, ? all are back east of the mississipi, with this new fad , well new to me

knothead · 04-29-2008, 01:04 AM

I'm having a hard time getting past the 4 valve, DOHC, 6 speed 2fiddy...
If that bike come close to half the price of a Jap bike(<$3000) and is reliable and has a decent suspension I think Shineray will be the company to start changing Western minds about Chinese bikes. I was planning on buying another bike soon, but I think I will wait to see what Shineray gets on US shores. I like everything I have seen so far!

iMoose · 04-29-2008, 01:08 AM

I've been pining for that GY-VII for months, but it's not likely going to happen.
That'swhy I said I'd be happy with the XTM 300cc (in black) and I'll just make my own racks.

Like Gram-Pappy always said, "Theyah is NO substatoot fah cubik inches!"

I haven't heard a single person say they ARE getting Shinerays here.

But if you are going to get one or the other, then get whatever you can sell cheaper. Price is the drive behind what sells the most.

I think I need more motor to lug around my anti-zombie gear anyhoo.

Suprsignet · 04-29-2008, 01:19 AM

I do have to jump in here and say that if the Shineray bikes are sold in the states they will be closer to the cost of a Qingqi than a Hi-Bird. My estimation is anywhere between 1600-2000+ USD (this is only a guess, please understand this) depending on the make and model of the machine. The prices will have to be set after all the details are worked out between the factory and importer.

It should be understood that displacement and cubic centimeters are important to some extent, but the quality and the durability of the product should also be high on one's list of requirements. Also a lot of these larger displacement bikes in China are made by companies taking larger displacement engines from their ATV production. These engines offer no to minimal gains in hp and little gain in torque.

I know at this size every little bit makes a difference, but you also have to consider your fuel economy and insurance. A modern well designed 250 will beat a older well designed 300.

iMoose · 04-29-2008, 01:28 AM

That's also what the 300's are expected to sell for.
DesertDog is offering to order a container of the 300's NOW.
I have yet to hear anybody do the same for the Shinerays. Been quiet.

A 300cc "Hi-Bird" in the hand is worth more than two VII's still in the bush.

You have to strike when the iron's hot!

Don't squeeze the Charmin!

sanders · 04-29-2008, 01:31 AM

Time for a poll?

Quote:

Originally Posted by iMoose

A 300cc "Hi-Bird" in the hand is worth more than two VII's still in the bush.

Don't squeeze the Charmin!

Are the XTM's related at all with Hi-Birds ... sorry if its a noob question. I did notice the little chrome triangle piece that they have in common with the birds! :oops:

knothead · 04-29-2008, 01:41 AM

Suprsignet,

I agree with everything you said regarding the larger Chinese engines, I see no real gains on the spec sheets. While I am one to say that I want a larger engine, as gas prices go up I'm leaning more and more toward staying with a smaller bike. Power is nice, but it does no good if you can't afford the fuel.
If the bike you're riding (the XY200GY-7) makes it here, I think $2000 would be a fair price (if the quality/durability is there). I like the size and styling, probably more so tan any other new bike I have seen, barring the new KTMs. I take it that the bike has yet to pass EPA/DOT. If that's the case I wouldn't expect to see one for sale for at least another year.

Suprsignet · 04-29-2008, 01:45 AM

The bike is EPA and DOT approved now. The factory is just looking for an Importer to bring the bikes into the States and/ or Canada as the Shineray brand. If the factory finds an Importer willing to do that the Importer will be given exclusive rights to distribute these new Shineray models in the USA and/or Canada.

I'd also rather have a well designed and put together bike over one that is thrown together out of a bucket of parts to get it to market quickly and cheaply. This can work for a company in the short term but it is always a better idea for any business to offer a quality product that is their own rather than to make a cheap knock of and then over stress design imitations.

Really I've personally become a huge fan of the Shineray bikes because they are unique and well built in a sea of the same. They are really something that stands out in the China bike industry and if there current offerings are an indication of what is to come in the future this could be a brand to watch.

Shineray will also be releasing a 400cc Dual sport sometime around the beginning of next year. The engine will be based on the Honda XR400 but will have the added option of electric start and will be stuffed in one of Shineray's own frame designs.

Suprsignet · 04-29-2008, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knothead

Suprsignet,

I agree with everything you said regarding the larger Chinese engines, I see no real gains on the spec sheets. While I am one to say that I want a larger engine, as gas prices go up I'm leaning more and more toward staying with a smaller bike. Power is nice, but it does no good if you can't afford the fuel.
If the bike you're riding (the XY200GY-7) makes it here, I think $2000 would be a fair price (if the quality/durability is there). I like the size and styling, probably more so tan any other new bike I have seen, barring the new KTMs. I take it that the bike has yet to pass EPA/DOT. If that's the case I wouldn't expect to see one for sale for at least another year.

Yeah, I'd also rather have a 26hp 250 than a 18hp 300. I dunno, maybe it's just me....

sanders · 04-29-2008, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertDog

looks the same to me ? i was only given the one photo and the specs
why must you ask,?

Seems to me like the engine on the bike in the second pic fills up the cradle a little more? That imo looks better

plus I don't like the orange rims

sanders · 04-29-2008, 02:04 AM

[quote="Suprsignet"

Yeah, I'd also rather have a 26hp 250 than a 18hp 300. I dunno, maybe it's just me....[/quote]

Someone sounds like a sales rep

... j/k bro. You sold me. Actually the first time I saw your bike on the beach I was sold. I thought you said the 26 hp engine wouldn't fit in this bike? Or was that a different engine?

Suprsignet · 04-29-2008, 02:08 AM

the 26hp engine won't fit my bike, but will be in a line of new bikes that are going to be released will use the 250 water cooled engine.

My bike has a 16 hp 200, the 250 is 18hp..sorry for the confusion

sanders · 04-29-2008, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suprsignet

the 26hp engine won't fit my bike, but will be in a line of new bikes that are going to be released will use the 250 water cooled engine.

My bike has a 16 hp 200, the 250 is 18hp..sorry for the confusion

Not a problem, I think I could have cleared that up myself if I would have gone back and read a little closer. Whichever one of these bikes that gets imported in the end of this though will probably become my new mount about mid summer.

iMoose · 04-29-2008, 02:53 AM

I think the 300cc bike we are talking about is this one:

I Googled XTQY10-D300 and found two sites with the same exact specs.

Says 16.2 Kw which times 1.34102209 to get hp = 21.724556HP!

So the 2hp jump from 200 to 250 seems kinda wimpy compared to the jump from 250 to 300! Almost 4hp more for that 50cc bump.
(or twice as big an increase)

That water-cooled 250 job is probably gonna cost $3k+ too! For only 4hp.

Sooooooooooo........... prices +/- are:
200 16hp $1,ooo
250 18hp $1,2oo
300 22hp $1,7oo
250 W/C 26hp $3,ooo
I don't think $1,300 EXTRA for that 4hp is worth it on the water-cooled.

And haven't even heard for sure what the VII will cost, best guess is $2k.

04-29-2008, 12:45 AM	#32
DesertDog Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 782	so i am to under stand that everyone here likes shineray ,(alot) ? yes. i wont get these XTM's if no one wants them or interested in them. i dont want a 36k inventory, and just looky-loo's at the store. so is there no one from the west to speak up, ? all are back east of the mississipi, with this new fad , well new to me __________________ DesertDog
	0

04-29-2008, 01:08 AM	#34
iMoose Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Seminole,FL Posts: 141	I'm torn! I've been pining for that GY-VII for months, but it's not likely going to happen. That'swhy I said I'd be happy with the XTM 300cc (in black) and I'll just make my own racks. Like Gram-Pappy always said, "Theyah is NO substatoot fah cubik inches!" I haven't heard a single person say they ARE getting Shinerays here. But if you are going to get one or the other, then get whatever you can sell cheaper. Price is the drive behind what sells the most. I think I need more motor to lug around my anti-zombie gear anyhoo.
	0

04-29-2008, 01:04 AM	#33
knothead Join Date: May 2007 Location: In the land of the busted up ricebowl Posts: 815	I'm having a hard time getting past the 4 valve, DOHC, 6 speed 2fiddy... If that bike come close to half the price of a Jap bike(<$3000) and is reliable and has a decent suspension I think Shineray will be the company to start changing Western minds about Chinese bikes. I was planning on buying another bike soon, but I think I will wait to see what Shineray gets on US shores. I like everything I have seen so far!
	0

04-29-2008, 01:19 AM	#35
Suprsignet Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 88	I do have to jump in here and say that if the Shineray bikes are sold in the states they will be closer to the cost of a Qingqi than a Hi-Bird. My estimation is anywhere between 1600-2000+ USD (this is only a guess, please understand this) depending on the make and model of the machine. The prices will have to be set after all the details are worked out between the factory and importer. It should be understood that displacement and cubic centimeters are important to some extent, but the quality and the durability of the product should also be high on one's list of requirements. Also a lot of these larger displacement bikes in China are made by companies taking larger displacement engines from their ATV production. These engines offer no to minimal gains in hp and little gain in torque. I know at this size every little bit makes a difference, but you also have to consider your fuel economy and insurance. A modern well designed 250 will beat a older well designed 300.
	0

04-29-2008, 01:28 AM	#36
iMoose Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Seminole,FL Posts: 141	That's also what the 300's are expected to sell for. DesertDog is offering to order a container of the 300's NOW. I have yet to hear anybody do the same for the Shinerays. Been quiet. A 300cc "Hi-Bird" in the hand is worth more than two VII's still in the bush. You have to strike when the iron's hot! Don't squeeze the Charmin!
	0

04-29-2008, 01:41 AM	#38
knothead Join Date: May 2007 Location: In the land of the busted up ricebowl Posts: 815	Suprsignet, I agree with everything you said regarding the larger Chinese engines, I see no real gains on the spec sheets. While I am one to say that I want a larger engine, as gas prices go up I'm leaning more and more toward staying with a smaller bike. Power is nice, but it does no good if you can't afford the fuel. If the bike you're riding (the XY200GY-7) makes it here, I think $2000 would be a fair price (if the quality/durability is there). I like the size and styling, probably more so tan any other new bike I have seen, barring the new KTMs. I take it that the bike has yet to pass EPA/DOT. If that's the case I wouldn't expect to see one for sale for at least another year.
	0

04-29-2008, 01:45 AM	#39
Suprsignet Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 88	The bike is EPA and DOT approved now. The factory is just looking for an Importer to bring the bikes into the States and/ or Canada as the Shineray brand. If the factory finds an Importer willing to do that the Importer will be given exclusive rights to distribute these new Shineray models in the USA and/or Canada. I'd also rather have a well designed and put together bike over one that is thrown together out of a bucket of parts to get it to market quickly and cheaply. This can work for a company in the short term but it is always a better idea for any business to offer a quality product that is their own rather than to make a cheap knock of and then over stress design imitations. Really I've personally become a huge fan of the Shineray bikes because they are unique and well built in a sea of the same. They are really something that stands out in the China bike industry and if there current offerings are an indication of what is to come in the future this could be a brand to watch. Shineray will also be releasing a 400cc Dual sport sometime around the beginning of next year. The engine will be based on the Honda XR400 but will have the added option of electric start and will be stuffed in one of Shineray's own frame designs.
	0

04-29-2008, 02:04 AM	#42
sanders Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 16	[quote="Suprsignet" Yeah, I'd also rather have a 26hp 250 than a 18hp 300. I dunno, maybe it's just me....[/quote] Someone sounds like a sales rep ... j/k bro. You sold me. Actually the first time I saw your bike on the beach I was sold. I thought you said the 26 hp engine wouldn't fit in this bike? Or was that a different engine?
	0

04-29-2008, 02:08 AM	#43
Suprsignet Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 88	the 26hp engine won't fit my bike, but will be in a line of new bikes that are going to be released will use the 250 water cooled engine. My bike has a 16 hp 200, the 250 is 18hp..sorry for the confusion
	0

04-29-2008, 02:53 AM	#45
iMoose Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Seminole,FL Posts: 141	I think the 300cc bike we are talking about is this one: I Googled XTQY10-D300 and found two sites with the same exact specs. Says 16.2 Kw which times 1.34102209 to get hp = 21.724556HP! So the 2hp jump from 200 to 250 seems kinda wimpy compared to the jump from 250 to 300! Almost 4hp more for that 50cc bump. (or twice as big an increase) That water-cooled 250 job is probably gonna cost $3k+ too! For only 4hp. Sooooooooooo........... prices +/- are: 200 16hp $1,ooo 250 18hp $1,2oo 300 22hp $1,7oo 250 W/C 26hp $3,ooo I don't think $1,300 EXTRA for that 4hp is worth it on the water-cooled. And haven't even heard for sure what the VII will cost, best guess is $2k.
	0