Templar X 250

[riddlerap]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker

I did some research last month on the Templar while daily watching for X model to be back in inventory.

What I found is still very impressive and depending on your style of riding if may fit better. It appears to be a Wuyi Zuma built bike. The same as the TemplarX. Being shorter appeals to me for tight trails especially with the torque from the ZS172FMM3-A motor. Here is the link to what I believe is the manufacturer. Was correct for the TemplarX. I believe the model is a K5 or K7.

https://zuumav.m.en.alibaba.com/

I think the smaller gas tank and frame being smaller and potentially harder to fit upgrades into are enough to back me away from the regular Templar.

[riddlerap]

I almost wanna try and find one on Alibaba and buy it direct. So far though most have a higher than 1 at a time minimum order quantity. And I don't know what other issues there would end up being. Not to mention customer support would be a nightmare I bet lol.

[Thumper]

I have maybe just over 200 miles on the Templar. I changed the oil and adjusted the exhaust valve (back to ~ 0.006inch). It had tightened up a little. The intake was still at ~ 0.005inches.

I took the plug out for the procedure to make it easier to control. While adjusting, I noticed that the crankshaft spins very nicely, and in fact the valve springs rotate the shaft as the cams roll off to zero lift. Smooth as silk (and good strong valve springs). Nice!

Here is a picture of the plug. Looks perfect. It is a YouALL smoothbore PE30.
OEM Main jet was #120. Changed to #125
OEM Pilot jet was #40, Changed to #45 (#42 is better-#45 doesn't need choke for cold weather start)
One washer shim on the needle (~1mm).

It starter instantly and ran GREAT when I got it all back together. I took a quick trail ride and had a blast
Perfect jetting.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by riddlerap

I almost wanna try and find one on Alibaba and buy it direct. So far though most have a higher than 1 at a time minimum order quantity. And I don't know what other issues there would end up being. Not to mention customer support would be a nightmare I bet lol.

Those importers put $20,000 or more into an order (probably more often like $40k or $50k) and get a load of bikes shipped. They deal with import fees and shipping costs to get them to that warehouse in the Dallas 'burb. This approach gives them really low cost per unit and they can offer them to us for such awesome prices. I wish they would get some K7-NC450s. Even if they charged $3500, it would be worth paying.

****The NC450 ENGINE is Zongshen ZS194MQ
Yes. It is available. It is a 41hp engine.
https://aj1moto.com/products/zongshe...zs194mq-engine
GPX motors also sells this as a crate motor.

[riddlerap]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Those importers put $20,000 or more into an order (probably more often like $40k or $50k) and get a load of bikes shipped. They deal with import fees and shipping costs to get them to that warehouse in the Dallas 'burb. This approach gives them really low cost per unit and they can offer them to us for such awesome prices. I wish they would get some K7-NC450s. Even if they charged $3500, it would be worth paying.

****The NC450 ENGINE is Zongshen ZS194MQ
Yes. It is available. It is a 41hp engine.
https://aj1moto.com/products/zongshe...zs194mq-engine
GPX motors also sells this as a crate motor.

That would be sick. I think long term 450 is what I'll end up with. Figured 250 was a good place to start though. I'm counting days until alleged stock is back.. about 58 more.

[Thumper]

https://aj1moto.com/collections/engines
41hp NC450 ?? UPDATE- COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MOUNTING POSITIONS-INCOMPATIBLE


Or NC300??? UPDATE- COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MOUNTING POSITIONS-INCOMPATIBLE
The beauty of replacing the engine is that you can put an engine that is only sold on an off-road bike into a bike that you all ready have licensed and plated (like my K7 CB250F). The 4 valve NC300 is a 25hp engine, liquid cooled, and available in a 6 speed, balanced. Replacement radiators are available, so no problem there. This would be lots of work. The first step is verifying mounting positions line up or can be adapted. I would settle for that, unless the NC450 fits into the K7 frame
NO! -UPDATE- COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MOUNTING POSITIONS-INCOMPATIBLE

[Nutcracker]

So this is pure speculation but I believe PSM will be getting 300cc bikes soon. Full size quantity bikes are showing up at many China Bike importers for $3k to 5k. PSM has the best Value Pricing in my opinion on bikes for what you receive. Wondering if in 2 months when PSM has the TemplarX back in inventory they introduce the 300cc size bikes at a bargain.

These 300cc engines are showing up everywhere in UK bikes & there 30HP+. If I could get my hands on some of these engines....

[Teklock]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker

So this is pure speculation but I believe PSM will be getting 300cc bikes soon. Full size quantity bikes are showing up at many China Bike importers for $3k to 5k. PSM has the best Value Pricing in my opinion on bikes for what you receive. Wondering if in 2 months when PSM has the TemplarX back in inventory they introduce the 300cc size bikes at a bargain.

These 300cc engines are showing up everywhere in UK bikes & there 30HP+. If I could get my hands on some of these engines....

Unless these bikes are on the EPA's "Annual Certification Data" spreadsheet I would not believe it. Unless they are off road use only. https://www.epa.gov/system/files/doc...6-present.xlsx

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Teklock

Unless these bikes are on the EPA's "Annual Certification Data" spreadsheet I would not believe it. Unless they are off road use only. https://www.epa.gov/system/files/doc...6-present.xlsx

Unfortunately, it looks like the engine mounts on the NC450 are very different. NC300 four valve engine (ZS174MN, that makes 25hp also seems very different. OEM 249cc ZS172FMM-3A has ~90mm between forward two mounting positions and ~160mm between the rear two mounting positions (this one):
https://aj1moto.com/collections/engi...-cb249f-engine


On the other hand...the PR250 (ZS172FMM-5), which is a 6 speed and has the balancing shaft, appears to have the same bolt pattern as the ZS172FMM-3A (stock engine on the Templar X):
https://aj1moto.com/collections/engi...n-pr250-engine

Even if it fits though, this is a modest upgrade: same hp rating, but with a sixth gear and the balance shaft.

So, unless someone has a good suggestion, I see no viable direct replacements for the stock engine besides the PR250, which isn't really worth the money for an extra gear.

[Blueridge boyieee]

The model numbers are a bit confusing, my non-x is K5-CB250F. A titan with the 172FMM?

The Orion RXB header/muffler fits with some welding modifications, everything fits with welding modifications…

Front sprocket is next, thanks for the pics.

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Unfortunately, it looks like the engine mounts on the NC450 are very different. NC300 four valve engine (ZS174MN, that makes 25hp also seems very different. OEM 249cc ZS172FMM-3A has ~90mm between forward two mounting positions and ~160mm between the rear two mounting positions (this one):
https://aj1moto.com/collections/engi...-cb249f-engine


On the other hand...the PR250 (ZS172FMM-5), which is a 6 speed and has the balancing shaft, appears to have the same bolt pattern as the ZS172FMM-3A (stock engine on the Templar X):
https://aj1moto.com/collections/engi...n-pr250-engine

Even if it fits though, this is a modest upgrade: same hp rating, but with a sixth gear and the balance shaft.

So, unless someone has a good suggestion, I see no viable direct replacements for the stock engine besides the PR250, which isn't really worth the money for an extra gear.

It looks like the PR250 mounts are a bit off too.
Honestly I’d pay for the 6th gear.
Power wise I think Joe Henner is going to be the go to guy with his 300cc kit.

[Blueridge boyieee]

Hopefully this works…



The RXB header, 39mm. The rear part I cut and welded ain’t nearly as pretty…

[Blueridge boyieee]

My short straw frame…

[Okierider]

Well I have gone back to the factory Youall carb.
Using stock jetting on the youall a 125 jet is running rich for me. Last ride I had it on (around 50 miles driving it to our new house) it would start to drown above 9000 rpm.
The Mikuni is a better carb for a lot of reasons, but primarily due to its ease of tuning. Once you’ve got the pilot circuit figured out you never need to remove the bowl again. Swapping mains only requires removing a nut at the bottom of the bowl. It is an exceptional piece of machinery, truly.
However, I came to realize that I was fighting not with jets but with the needle profile and slide cutaway. Mikuni slides (from what I’ve gathered) come with cutouts numbered from 1 to 2.5 in .5 segments (for the vm28 anyway). The carb comes jetted 60/200 pilot/main and has an appropriately sized cutaway (2.5) and needle (5P21) for that size jetting-way, WAY too large for the 250. In fact according to the Mikuni VM tuning manual 28mm is at the bleeding edge of being too large for a 20hp 250-26mm is what they would say is appropriate I think. Then you have to figure out a needle profile. 5 or 6 step, and a dozen different needles makes it a pain for a noob.
The stock carb has a much smaller cutaway and a much thinner needle profile than the Mikuni and that made a world of difference in consistency.
It is slower, but we’re talking 2-3mph at the absolute top of the RPM range in 5th gear-however the heat may very well account for that.
I have a 26 floating around that I may try in the future (it’s much smaller than the youall) but for now it’s fine lol.

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by Blueridge boyieee

Hopefully this works…



The RXB header, 39mm. The rear part I cut and welded ain’t nearly as pretty…

I need to cut out the cat and weld in a piece of straight pipe to replace it but I wasn’t sure what size the pipe is, is that 39mm the size of the header pipe or flange?