Need help picking a bike

Fast_Freddy · 11-24-2022, 12:38 AM

Hello, I want to buy a dual sport and have been looking around but still have many questions. I'm 6'1" 250 lbs, 60yo and started riding when I was 12. I haven't ridden off road in a few decades except for mountain biking. I do have a lot of experience on 2 wheels. I plan to spend most of my time on back roads, trails and old mining land (off road park). My last bike was a Vulcan 1500 cruiser.

I like the Templar and Templar M, Titan and Hawk. My budget is <$2k. What is the difference between the Templar and Templar M? Are all the 230cc engines the same pushrod engine? I think I'd like to get the 250 OHC engine instead but then again even a slow bike can be fun. I would also prefer 21/18" wheels like my old motox bikes had. Are there other bikes with the 250 engine besides the templar?

I tried calling Powersportmax but the girl I spoke with didn't know anything about the bikies. Any advice, information and guidance is appreciated. TIA!

Wild Dog · 11-24-2022, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Hello, I want to buy a dual sport and have been looking around but still have many questions. I'm 6'1" 250 lbs, 60yo and started riding when I was 12. I haven't ridden off road in a few decades except for mountain biking. I do have a lot of experience on 2 wheels. I plan to spend most of my time on back roads, trails and old mining land (off road park). My last bike was a Vulcan 1500 cruiser.

I like the Templar and Templar M, Titan and Hawk. My budget is <$2k. What is the difference between the Templar and Templar M? Are all the 230cc engines the same pushrod engine? I think I'd like to get the 250 OHC engine instead but then again even a slow bike can be fun. I would also prefer 21/18" wheels like my old motox bikes had. Are there other bikes with the 250 engine besides the templar?

I tried calling Powersportmax but the girl I spoke with didn't know anything about the bikies. Any advice, information and guidance is appreciated. TIA!

The 230cc can be either OHV or OHC

From that list i would pick the Templar M. That engine is quite good and can go head to head with let's say a Yamaha XT250 and with some jetting can make the engine on the XT250 eat dust.

For the asking price in the US, it is a bargain.

Fast_Freddy · 11-24-2022, 08:29 PM

Thanks Wild Dog. How can I tell which 230 is which? I agree that the 249cc engine seems like the much better engine. I just noticed that the Templar uses a different frame from the more expensive (newer?) X and M versions. The Templar wheelbase is only 52" vs 58" and the seat height is 35" vs 36". I actually prefer the Templar with the different frame colors unless there are more compelling reasons to get the M. The skid plate on the M/X is nice.

How comfortable is the Templar? The seat looks very thin and narrow. Tiny gas tank too. If the specs are correct, the M/X also weigh 45lbs more than the Templar. Ugh... So many factors to consider and so few reviews. Thanks again.

Zapkin · 11-24-2022, 08:50 PM

Freddie just keep in mind that when you get this bike if you don't tweaked out to maximum performance levels, many folks on here

may begin calling you slow freddie. heheh sorry couldn't resist. happy thanksgiving humor.

Fast_Freddy · 11-25-2022, 02:33 AM

How could I be anything but slow on a 4 stroke 250?

Happy Thanksgiving,

Slow Freddy

tknj99 · 11-25-2022, 08:23 AM

The seat on the Templar X is fairly comfortable and basically the same as any dirt-bike seat. I can ride for hours and if my butt starts feeling sore, a short stand on the pegs and im back to normal. With that being said, if you want a more comfortable bike for on/off road riding then something like a Brozz or Hawk may be the better choice although they lose some of the off-road prowess that the Templar X brings to the table (not-including the 6th gear).. None of these bikes are MX level or something you'd do jumps with but they are all a ton of fun on pavement, gravel/fire roads, and off-road trails.. and the power is just right not to get yourself into too much trouble..
Also.. i was only aware of a Templar M (5-speed and non-adjustable suspension) and X (6-speed with fully adjustable f/r suspension) but not a plain Templar.. looking on the PSM site it seems the Templar looks curiously the same as a Titan 5-sp with non-adjustable suspension?

Wild Dog · 11-25-2022, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknj99

The seat on the Templar X is fairly comfortable and basically the same as any dirt-bike seat. I can ride for hours and if my butt starts feeling sore, a short stand on the pegs and im back to normal. With that being said, if you want a more comfortable bike for on/off road riding then something like a Brozz or Hawk may be the better choice although they lose some of the off-road prowess that the Templar X brings to the table

That's what i was going to say.
The seat on hawksesque motorcycles is more confortable than the ones found in the templar.

Thumper · 11-25-2022, 09:10 AM

FYI-about engines...

The 229cc ZS167FMM clone (14hp) is on the Bashan bikes (Brozz, Recon, Storm) and the Hawk. Hawk DLX has the EFI version of this engine.

The 19hp 249cc ZS172FMM engine is on the Templar M and X. Lifan KPX 250 has a Lifan manufactured 249cc engine just like the ZS172.

The 229cc is still commonly sold as a "250". Most 250s have the 229cc engine, so look closely for actual displacement or the engine designations above.

Bikes with the bigger engine are taller, especially the Templars, which have full sized enduro/MX frames.

Here are a couple of threads on the Templar X.
The first one is the 5 speed version from earlier this Summer.
The 6speed version (2022 1/2 Templar X) came out mid/late Summer.

https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31046
https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31439

Sport Rider · 11-25-2022, 10:41 AM

get the 249cc and also look for a 6 speed trans. those two things help a lot for backroad riding at 55 to 60 to get to locations to go off road. I had a Hawk and I'm about your size. the 229s have to run at near max RPMs to get 60. the sixth gear helps to relax the motor a bit.

Fast_Freddy · 11-25-2022, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknj99

The seat on the Templar X is fairly comfortable and basically the same as any dirt-bike seat. I can ride for hours and if my butt starts feeling sore, a short stand on the pegs and im back to normal. With that being said, if you want a more comfortable bike for on/off road riding then something like a Brozz or Hawk may be the better choice although they lose some of the off-road prowess that the Templar X brings to the table (not-including the 6th gear).. None of these bikes are MX level or something you'd do jumps with but they are all a ton of fun on pavement, gravel/fire roads, and off-road trails.. and the power is just right not to get yourself into too much trouble..
Also.. i was only aware of a Templar M (5-speed and non-adjustable suspension) and X (6-speed with fully adjustable f/r suspension) but not a plain Templar.. looking on the PSM site it seems the Templar looks curiously the same as a Titan 5-sp with non-adjustable suspension?

Thanks! PSM has sold out of the Templar M that I was leaning toward so now I'm really curious about the Templar. It looks similar to the Titan but the wheelbase is even shorter at 52" vs 54" for the Titan. I know I should buy the X but I really want to stay under $2k and I really plan on just putting around back roads at 50mph. I don't mind swapping sprockets occasionally.

Should I be worried about the short 52" wheelbase of the Templar? Is the 16hp Titan Zongshen engine OHC? PSM doesn't have enough info on their site. I really like ther Hawk but I think the Titan and Templar look like better options for me. Thanks for your insights

Fast_Freddy · 11-25-2022, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

FYI-about engines...

The 229cc ZS167FMM clone (14hp) is on the Bashan bikes (Brozz, Recon, Storm) and the Hawk. Hawk DLX has the EFI version of this engine.

The 19hp 249cc ZS172FMM engine is on the Templar M and X. Lifan KPX 250 has a Lifan manufactured 249cc engine just like the ZS172.

The 229cc is still commonly sold as a "250". Most 250s have the 229cc engine, so look closely for actual displacement or the engine designations above.

Bikes with the bigger engine are taller, especially the Templars, which have full sized enduro/MX frames.

Here are a couple of threads on the Templar X.
The first one is the 5 speed version from earlier this Summer.
The 6speed version (2022 1/2 Templar X) came out mid/late Summer.

https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31046
https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31439

Thank you! So the 229cc is the pushrod OHV engine with 14hp? Does that mean the 223cc 16hp Zongshen is the OHC engine?

Do you know much about the smaller Templar with the short 52" wheelbase? PSM has a Templar, m and x variants. The M/X have a much longer 58" wheelbase, taller seat height and slightly larger fuel tank, among other differences. I know I'll probably regret not spending the extra $400 for the X but I'm still inclined to get a cheaper 5 spd. When we go to the local ATV park the bike will be trailered with the UTV.

Fast_Freddy · 11-25-2022, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sport Rider

get the 249cc and also look for a 6 speed trans. those two things help a lot for backroad riding at 55 to 60 to get to locations to go off road. I had a Hawk and I'm about your size. the 229s have to run at near max RPMs to get 60. the sixth gear helps to relax the motor a bit.

Thank you! That is good advice. I'm not sure that I'm smart enough to take it but I do appreciate it nonetheless.

Megadan · 11-25-2022, 06:12 PM

Most 167fmm engines are rated so low because they are super leaned out from the factory with the carbed versions. Proper jet sizing really perks them up. The CSC TT250 is rated at 16.1hp, which is more realistic for a properly tuned carubureted OHV 229. With a cat removal or a full exhaust it opens them up a tad more, usually resulting in a 3 to 5mph increase in top speed and better mid range power. The DLX is rated at 17hp, and wouldn't you know, it has a much better exhaust system from the factory than the carbed bikes.

Fast_Freddy · 11-26-2022, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

Most 167fmm engines are rated so low because they are super leaned out from the factory with the carbed versions. Proper jet sizing really perks them up. The CSC TT250 is rated at 16.1hp, which is more realistic for a properly tuned carubureted OHV 229. With a cat removal or a full exhaust it opens them up a tad more, usually resulting in a 3 to 5mph increase in top speed and better mid range power. The DLX is rated at 17hp, and wouldn't you know, it has a much better exhaust system from the factory than the carbed bikes.

Thanks! It's good to know that even the OHV 229 has easy potential. I'm so indecisive about this. I had pretty much decided on the Templar M and PSM sold out before I could place my order. Now I like the Templar a lot but not sure I want a short 52" wheelbase and concerned that I know so little about this third Templar version. It appears to use a different frame than the M/X and Titan.

My last few bikes were street bikes and I haven't ridden a dirt bike since the 80's on my Bultaco Frontera 250. It makes it hard to know what I want. It was much easier when I picked out my '75 KX125.

Fast_Freddy · 11-26-2022, 07:56 PM

Well, I ordered a Templar 250 from Powersportsmax. I hope I get the orange one and that it's a mild winter in SE PA

Edit: What jets do I need for this? IIRC 125 main and 45 pilot but Mikuni style, Keihin or other? I'm at ~500' ASL. TIA

11-24-2022, 12:38 AM	#1
Fast_Freddy Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: Pennsyltuckey Posts: 291	Need help picking a bike Hello, I want to buy a dual sport and have been looking around but still have many questions. I'm 6'1" 250 lbs, 60yo and started riding when I was 12. I haven't ridden off road in a few decades except for mountain biking. I do have a lot of experience on 2 wheels. I plan to spend most of my time on back roads, trails and old mining land (off road park). My last bike was a Vulcan 1500 cruiser. I like the Templar and Templar M, Titan and Hawk. My budget is <$2k. What is the difference between the Templar and Templar M? Are all the 230cc engines the same pushrod engine? I think I'd like to get the 250 OHC engine instead but then again even a slow bike can be fun. I would also prefer 21/18" wheels like my old motox bikes had. Are there other bikes with the 250 engine besides the templar? I tried calling Powersportmax but the girl I spoke with didn't know anything about the bikies. Any advice, information and guidance is appreciated. TIA!
	1

11-25-2022, 08:23 AM	#6
tknj99 Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Central VA Posts: 1,259	The seat on the Templar X is fairly comfortable and basically the same as any dirt-bike seat. I can ride for hours and if my butt starts feeling sore, a short stand on the pegs and im back to normal. With that being said, if you want a more comfortable bike for on/off road riding then something like a Brozz or Hawk may be the better choice although they lose some of the off-road prowess that the Templar X brings to the table (not-including the 6th gear).. None of these bikes are MX level or something you'd do jumps with but they are all a ton of fun on pavement, gravel/fire roads, and off-road trails.. and the power is just right not to get yourself into too much trouble.. Also.. i was only aware of a Templar M (5-speed and non-adjustable suspension) and X (6-speed with fully adjustable f/r suspension) but not a plain Templar.. looking on the PSM site it seems the Templar looks curiously the same as a Titan 5-sp with non-adjustable suspension? __________________ 2024 Zuma Storm 150 DLX 2019 Beta 430 RRS 2018 VStrom 1000 XT Former China Bikes: Tao DBX1, Brozz 250, CSC RX4, Titan DLX, Templar X
	0

11-25-2022, 09:10 AM	#8
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,380	FYI-about engines... The 229cc ZS167FMM clone (14hp) is on the Bashan bikes (Brozz, Recon, Storm) and the Hawk. Hawk DLX has the EFI version of this engine. The 19hp 249cc ZS172FMM engine is on the Templar M and X. Lifan KPX 250 has a Lifan manufactured 249cc engine just like the ZS172. The 229cc is still commonly sold as a "250". Most 250s have the 229cc engine, so look closely for actual displacement or the engine designations above. Bikes with the bigger engine are taller, especially the Templars, which have full sized enduro/MX frames. Here are a couple of threads on the Templar X. The first one is the 5 speed version from earlier this Summer. The 6speed version (2022 1/2 Templar X) came out mid/late Summer. https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31046 https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31439 Last edited by Thumper; 11-25-2022 at 03:09 PM.
	2

11-25-2022, 06:12 PM	#13
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,041	Most 167fmm engines are rated so low because they are super leaned out from the factory with the carbed versions. Proper jet sizing really perks them up. The CSC TT250 is rated at 16.1hp, which is more realistic for a properly tuned carubureted OHV 229. With a cat removal or a full exhaust it opens them up a tad more, usually resulting in a 3 to 5mph increase in top speed and better mid range power. The DLX is rated at 17hp, and wouldn't you know, it has a much better exhaust system from the factory than the carbed bikes. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	1

11-26-2022, 07:56 PM	#15
Fast_Freddy Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: Pennsyltuckey Posts: 291	Well, I ordered a Templar 250 from Powersportsmax. I hope I get the orange one and that it's a mild winter in SE PA Edit: What jets do I need for this? IIRC 125 main and 45 pilot but Mikuni style, Keihin or other? I'm at ~500' ASL. TIA Last edited by Fast_Freddy; 11-26-2022 at 11:31 PM.
	3

11-24-2022, 08:29 PM	#3
Fast_Freddy Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: Pennsyltuckey Posts: 291	Thanks Wild Dog. How can I tell which 230 is which? I agree that the 249cc engine seems like the much better engine. I just noticed that the Templar uses a different frame from the more expensive (newer?) X and M versions. The Templar wheelbase is only 52" vs 58" and the seat height is 35" vs 36". I actually prefer the Templar with the different frame colors unless there are more compelling reasons to get the M. The skid plate on the M/X is nice. How comfortable is the Templar? The seat looks very thin and narrow. Tiny gas tank too. If the specs are correct, the M/X also weigh 45lbs more than the Templar. Ugh... So many factors to consider and so few reviews. Thanks again.
	0

11-24-2022, 08:50 PM	#4
Zapkin Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Ohio Valley Posts: 688	Freddie just keep in mind that when you get this bike if you don't tweaked out to maximum performance levels, many folks on here may begin calling you slow freddie. heheh sorry couldn't resist. happy thanksgiving humor.
	2

11-25-2022, 02:33 AM	#5
Fast_Freddy Join Date: Nov 2022 Location: Pennsyltuckey Posts: 291	How could I be anything but slow on a 4 stroke 250? Happy Thanksgiving, Slow Freddy
	2

11-25-2022, 10:41 AM	#9
Sport Rider Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Mooresville NC Posts: 2,049	get the 249cc and also look for a 6 speed trans. those two things help a lot for backroad riding at 55 to 60 to get to locations to go off road. I had a Hawk and I'm about your size. the 229s have to run at near max RPMs to get 60. the sixth gear helps to relax the motor a bit.
	1