HELP! XMoto won't start after cleaning air filter-carb : ( - Page 6

puush · 05-02-2009, 01:18 AM

I installed a new Ignition coil since I have taken bike apart so many times I pull ignition coil wire out of spark plug cap.I got spark, fuel and air but my bike still wont start. My compression gauge was out in the rain a few times so I dont know how accurate it is. My compression reading was 60 psi.

I am going to see if a bike shop will take my bike in a town 100 miles away. They say the work on all makes and models but I know that does not include chinese. I am tired of begging people to work on my chinese bike. With this poor economy i figure people would at least try.

Michael A

warrior91 · 05-02-2009, 02:41 AM

well 60 psi is crap compression...

puush · 05-02-2009, 03:59 AM

what would cause low compression on new bike?

forchetto · 05-02-2009, 04:45 AM

No wear would have taken place yet, so I can only think of a broken piston ring, a leaking head gasket, or far more likely the valve clearances are too small, maintaining one of the valves partially opened.

Remove the valve caps, place the piston on TDC (top dead centre) using the marks engraved on the generator ("T" mark). You get two TDC events: one on the exhaust stroke and one on the power or compression stroke. Make sure it's on the power/compression stroke by turning the engine in the normal direction of rotation while observing the inlet valve (the one closest to the carb). Eventually the valve will start to open, this is when you see the rocker pushing it down. Now keep rotating the engine slowly and the next time the "T" mark appears that's TDC on compression.

Just feel that the rockers have a little sideways and up and down play in that position. They must feel loose, otherwise the valve clearance needs setting.

puush · 05-02-2009, 07:44 AM

Well I guess I could try to adjust the valves again. I took a stab at adjusting the valves twice and I am not sure that I did it right.

I can see the "T Mark" ok but I am not sure when I am in Top Dead Center" on "Compression" Stroke. I understand what the "Inlet" valve is, but I am not totally sure what you mean when you say "the valve will start to open", "this is when you will see the rocker pushing it down.

I guess I can give the Valve Adjustment another try before taking it to the shop.

If the valves are out of adjustment will that cause "low" compression readings? Thats for all your help dudes.

Michael A

puush · 05-02-2009, 07:52 AM

Thanks for all your help mates.

forchetto · 05-02-2009, 08:58 AM

Sorry I didn't explain myself too well.

In an ideal world, the way to find out if the piston is at TDC on the compression stroke is to turn the engine until the "T" mark appears and lines up with the index mark. This can be confirmed by feeling the rockers and if the clearances are correct you can wiggle them about and "feel" the clearance. This is because both valves have to be closed to be on the compression stroke. When the valves are fully closed the valves have to have some clearance and therefore the rockers will rattle about a bit.

If one or both rockers are too tight to move, it means that the engine is at TDC but on the exhaust stroke, so you turn the engine another 360Âº until the mark comes up once more and that should be the TDC at compression. You can confirm this by feeling the rockers once again to confirm there's some clearance and the engine is set at the correct TDC.

In your case we don't know if the valves are correctly set, so the above method might not work, so what we do is reason that by observing the inlet valve opening (rocker pushing the stem down against the valve spring), and continue rotating the engine the inlet valve will soon close again (rocker coming back up) after admitting fresh gas/air mixture from the carb, the engine will soon be compressing that mixture and reaching TDC on the compression stroke. This is why the next "T" mark you see after the inlet valve has opened and closed is the correct one to enable the valves to be checked and set.

Any of the valves being out of adjustment (too tight or no clearance) will hold that valve off its seat and allow the compression to escape. This can make starting difficult and in bad cases impossible.

warrior91 · 05-02-2009, 04:05 PM

I agree with Forchetto....could be all in the valves ,your lack of compression...Though you have been adjusting your valves more in a week than I have in my life...or the 17 years on my Yamaha.
But after reading the whole post again...if the airbox was full of water/mud...That could have a lot more to do with it than valves...
IF that bike was sucking in dirt and water...the cyl walls could be so scored that the rings will not seal...Enough water to cause a lean out condition and melt a hole in the top of the piston...
Cracked rings...
Sorry I can't be more positive.

puush · 05-03-2009, 06:05 AM

I'll take a shot at adjusting valves again. Should I take off head and look at piston and rings before adjusting valves?

I have just replaced piston and rings on a 250cc Chinese Dune Buggy Engine so I am familiar with that process. I just don't have manual for the Xmoto Engine.

Its confusing that getting my new Xmoto muddy in Air box filter could cause so much damage because I have got my old DB-27 200cc Chinese bike just as muddy and I just got it running again and it goes like hell. Thanks for all your help dudes. Seriously.

Michael A

forchetto · 05-03-2009, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puush

I'll take a shot at adjusting valves again. Should I take off head and look at piston and rings before adjusting valves?

Depends how confident you're that they are right. When I posted that long-winded explanation I wasn't aware of you having done them many times. Still, it won't take that long to do them and check before taking the head off.

puush · 05-04-2009, 07:24 AM

Well, I adjusted valves like "forchetto" said and I am confident they are right. The "Exhaust Valve" was way to wide open. After I adjusted my valves my bike still won't start. It doesn't even sputter like its going to start. My brand new battery went dead after only trying to start bike for few minutes. Is that normal? What is sucking my battery dry?

I am taking it to the shop after spending about 80 hours of my time on it. I surrender. Gonna put time in my dune buggy. Something I can fix.

warrior91 · 05-05-2009, 10:11 PM

does it kick start??? Sounds like crappy battery, low amps...mabey dragging starter...

puush · 05-05-2009, 11:42 PM

no. it doesnt kick star either. I am taking it to a master mecheanic in a city 3 hours away. after explaining situation he says he can fix it. 80/hr so will cost me about 400 I think.

Michael A

Cal25 · 05-06-2009, 08:50 AM

At 400 bucks, I would seriously be considering a new engine.

liverchip · 05-06-2009, 12:15 PM

Man I would really like to look at your problem, but alas, I'm in SoCal.

05-02-2009, 01:18 AM	#76
puush Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 123	wont start I installed a new Ignition coil since I have taken bike apart so many times I pull ignition coil wire out of spark plug cap.I got spark, fuel and air but my bike still wont start. My compression gauge was out in the rain a few times so I dont know how accurate it is. My compression reading was 60 psi. I am going to see if a bike shop will take my bike in a town 100 miles away. They say the work on all makes and models but I know that does not include chinese. I am tired of begging people to work on my chinese bike. With this poor economy i figure people would at least try. Michael A __________________ Michael, IT Dude From the Great Land of Lake County
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05-02-2009, 02:41 AM	#77
warrior91 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: N.E. Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 679	well 60 psi is crap compression... __________________ '91 Yamaha Warrior- stage 2 '83 Honda ATC 70 '08 Yongjiang 125cc mx (Loncin) '08 Yongjiang 150cc atv (Jinlong)
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05-02-2009, 03:59 AM	#78
puush Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 123	compression what would cause low compression on new bike? __________________ Michael, IT Dude From the Great Land of Lake County
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05-02-2009, 04:45 AM	#79
forchetto Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gijon, Asturias,Northern Spain Posts: 396	No wear would have taken place yet, so I can only think of a broken piston ring, a leaking head gasket, or far more likely the valve clearances are too small, maintaining one of the valves partially opened. Remove the valve caps, place the piston on TDC (top dead centre) using the marks engraved on the generator ("T" mark). You get two TDC events: one on the exhaust stroke and one on the power or compression stroke. Make sure it's on the power/compression stroke by turning the engine in the normal direction of rotation while observing the inlet valve (the one closest to the carb). Eventually the valve will start to open, this is when you see the rocker pushing it down. Now keep rotating the engine slowly and the next time the "T" mark appears that's TDC on compression. Just feel that the rockers have a little sideways and up and down play in that position. They must feel loose, otherwise the valve clearance needs setting. __________________ Jincheng Monkey JC50Q-7 (two of them) Skyteam Dax replica ST110-6 (two of them) Zongshen ZS125-43 Qingqi QM200GY-BA Super Motard Yamaha Virago XV1100 Triumph Bonneville SE Qingqi QM110GY PGO Bug rider 250 Buggy
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05-02-2009, 07:44 AM	#80
puush Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 123	valves Well I guess I could try to adjust the valves again. I took a stab at adjusting the valves twice and I am not sure that I did it right. I can see the "T Mark" ok but I am not sure when I am in Top Dead Center" on "Compression" Stroke. I understand what the "Inlet" valve is, but I am not totally sure what you mean when you say "the valve will start to open", "this is when you will see the rocker pushing it down. I guess I can give the Valve Adjustment another try before taking it to the shop. If the valves are out of adjustment will that cause "low" compression readings? Thats for all your help dudes. Michael A __________________ Michael, IT Dude From the Great Land of Lake County
	0

05-02-2009, 07:52 AM	#81
puush Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 123	thanks Thanks for all your help mates. __________________ Michael, IT Dude From the Great Land of Lake County
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05-02-2009, 08:58 AM	#82
forchetto Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gijon, Asturias,Northern Spain Posts: 396	Sorry I didn't explain myself too well. In an ideal world, the way to find out if the piston is at TDC on the compression stroke is to turn the engine until the "T" mark appears and lines up with the index mark. This can be confirmed by feeling the rockers and if the clearances are correct you can wiggle them about and "feel" the clearance. This is because both valves have to be closed to be on the compression stroke. When the valves are fully closed the valves have to have some clearance and therefore the rockers will rattle about a bit. If one or both rockers are too tight to move, it means that the engine is at TDC but on the exhaust stroke, so you turn the engine another 360Âº until the mark comes up once more and that should be the TDC at compression. You can confirm this by feeling the rockers once again to confirm there's some clearance and the engine is set at the correct TDC. In your case we don't know if the valves are correctly set, so the above method might not work, so what we do is reason that by observing the inlet valve opening (rocker pushing the stem down against the valve spring), and continue rotating the engine the inlet valve will soon close again (rocker coming back up) after admitting fresh gas/air mixture from the carb, the engine will soon be compressing that mixture and reaching TDC on the compression stroke. This is why the next "T" mark you see after the inlet valve has opened and closed is the correct one to enable the valves to be checked and set. Any of the valves being out of adjustment (too tight or no clearance) will hold that valve off its seat and allow the compression to escape. This can make starting difficult and in bad cases impossible. __________________ Jincheng Monkey JC50Q-7 (two of them) Skyteam Dax replica ST110-6 (two of them) Zongshen ZS125-43 Qingqi QM200GY-BA Super Motard Yamaha Virago XV1100 Triumph Bonneville SE Qingqi QM110GY PGO Bug rider 250 Buggy
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05-02-2009, 04:05 PM	#83
warrior91 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: N.E. Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 679	I agree with Forchetto....could be all in the valves ,your lack of compression...Though you have been adjusting your valves more in a week than I have in my life...or the 17 years on my Yamaha. But after reading the whole post again...if the airbox was full of water/mud...That could have a lot more to do with it than valves... IF that bike was sucking in dirt and water...the cyl walls could be so scored that the rings will not seal...Enough water to cause a lean out condition and melt a hole in the top of the piston... Cracked rings... Sorry I can't be more positive. __________________ '91 Yamaha Warrior- stage 2 '83 Honda ATC 70 '08 Yongjiang 125cc mx (Loncin) '08 Yongjiang 150cc atv (Jinlong)
	0

05-03-2009, 06:05 AM	#84
puush Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 123	piston n rings I'll take a shot at adjusting valves again. Should I take off head and look at piston and rings before adjusting valves? I have just replaced piston and rings on a 250cc Chinese Dune Buggy Engine so I am familiar with that process. I just don't have manual for the Xmoto Engine. Its confusing that getting my new Xmoto muddy in Air box filter could cause so much damage because I have got my old DB-27 200cc Chinese bike just as muddy and I just got it running again and it goes like hell. Thanks for all your help dudes. Seriously. Michael A __________________ Michael, IT Dude From the Great Land of Lake County
	0

05-04-2009, 07:24 AM	#86
puush Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 123	valves Well, I adjusted valves like "forchetto" said and I am confident they are right. The "Exhaust Valve" was way to wide open. After I adjusted my valves my bike still won't start. It doesn't even sputter like its going to start. My brand new battery went dead after only trying to start bike for few minutes. Is that normal? What is sucking my battery dry? I am taking it to the shop after spending about 80 hours of my time on it. I surrender. Gonna put time in my dune buggy. Something I can fix. __________________ Michael, IT Dude From the Great Land of Lake County
	0

05-05-2009, 10:11 PM	#87
warrior91 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: N.E. Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 679	does it kick start??? Sounds like crappy battery, low amps...mabey dragging starter... __________________ '91 Yamaha Warrior- stage 2 '83 Honda ATC 70 '08 Yongjiang 125cc mx (Loncin) '08 Yongjiang 150cc atv (Jinlong)
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05-05-2009, 11:42 PM	#88
puush Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 123	no no. it doesnt kick star either. I am taking it to a master mecheanic in a city 3 hours away. after explaining situation he says he can fix it. 80/hr so will cost me about 400 I think. Michael A __________________ Michael, IT Dude From the Great Land of Lake County
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05-06-2009, 08:50 AM	#89
Cal25 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Terrell and Grapevine Tx. Posts: 1,585	At 400 bucks, I would seriously be considering a new engine.
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05-06-2009, 12:15 PM	#90
liverchip Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mystery Spot Posts: 1,223	Man I would really like to look at your problem, but alas, I'm in SoCal. __________________ 2009 XR650L Big Red Pig Tusk bar risers 2007 X-Moto(Jetmoto) GY250 --mods--- 15/40 sprockets UNI Pod Filter 2007 Shineray TMS 200XYi--Betsy Betsy Mods:______________________ Acerbis DHH headlight FMF Powercore pipe Uni Pod Filter
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