Templar X 250

[Nutcracker]

Originally Posted by Okierider

Knowledge check-my manual for the Templar got packed up due to my being in the middle of a move.
What does it call for valve clearance specs?

Engine warm calls for Intake .06mm Exhaust .08mm.

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker

Engine warm calls for Intake .06mm Exhaust .08mm.

.06 and .08 millimeters? Not inch?

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Okierider

.06 and .08 millimeters? Not inch?

You are correct. it is inch, not mm. I just verified looking at the feeler gauge. 0.07mm would be too tight!

Just got back from a title office. Plated with two year registration. I am insured and street legal, no issues.

[Nutcracker]

Originally Posted by Okierider

.06 and .08 millimeters? Not inch?

Yes Inch's not Millimeters.. Sorry

[Thumper]

Check the two 7mm nuts that secure your TAIL LIGHT!
These are tiny little nuts, but....
The tail assembly needs mounting when you unpack the crate, but I overlooked these. Fortunately, after a couple of hours on the engine, they were just loose, not LOST! I discovered this while mounting the license plate

A drop of loctite and snug them up before you assemble if possible (hard to drop in the loctite once assembled- but possible, I can attest)

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Okierider

.06 and .08 millimeters? Not inch?

I set exhaust at ~0.006" and intake ~0.005"
Range that will work is more like 0.005 to 0.007" exhaust, and 0.004" to 0.006" intake.
I use these values for the Storm as well. Unless I find beleievable authority, these gaps are not too narrow.

EDITED: These clearances are too wide. Cold engine!- gaps should be 0.001-0.002" intake and ~0.003" exhaust)

See Okierider's comment next post from Joe Henner.


These settings quieted down the head, and the engine still performs great.

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I set exhaust at ~0.006" and intake ~0.005"
Range that will work is more like 0.005 to 0.007" exhaust, and 0.004" to 0.006" intake.
I use these values for the Storm as well. Unless I find beleievable authority, these gaps are not too narrow.

If you have an authoritative reference otherwise, I would like to know.

Word is that exhaust valves get hotter and can tighten up, which can lead to blow by if the valve doesn't fully close. This is why the gap is ~wider. If the valve doesn't fully close, it can burn a gap and damage the sealing surface.

These are values measured in inches. My feeler gauge has both on them, so
for instance, 0.007" is 0.178mm

The conversion is simply multiply the inch value by 25.4 to get the final figure in millimeters. To convert, multiply the inch gap by 25.4 millimeters. Specifically, 1 millimeter equates to 0.0393700787 inches.

Please feel free to share you thoughts on these values. This motor runs GREAT at these settings, but I don't ride for long times- 30 minute sessions in the trails, with awesome performance. And the motor starts up instantly if I stall or temporarily shut down.

.002 inch is what Joe Henner recommended to me due specifically to these being roller rocker equipped motors unlike the old CG clones.
I figure he builds these into race motors so I’ll take his word for it.
That is, when I get a chance to do anything lol.
I need to check my clearances, install the 4* key, install the 40 tooth sprocket, install the oil cooler, and remove the cat/replace with straight pipe.
Honestly Thumper et al I’m enjoying living vicariously through all y’all. Moving the homestead has been and continues to be a bear. I probably won’t have much time to wrench until winter.

[Nutcracker]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I set exhaust at ~0.006" and intake ~0.005"
Range that will work is more like 0.005 to 0.007" exhaust, and 0.004" to 0.006" intake.
I use these values for the Storm as well. Unless I find beleievable authority, these gaps are not too narrow.

If you have an authoritative reference otherwise, I would like to know.

Word is that exhaust valves get hotter and can tighten up, which can lead to blow by if the valve doesn't fully close. This is why the gap is ~wider. If the valve doesn't fully close, it can burn a gap and damage the sealing surface.

These are values measured in inches. My feeler gauge has both on them, so
for instance, 0.007" is 0.178mm

The conversion is simply multiply the inch value by 25.4 to get the final figure in millimeters. To convert, multiply the inch gap by 25.4 millimeters. Specifically, 1 millimeter equates to 0.0393700787 inches.

Please feel free to share you thoughts on these values. This motor runs GREAT at these settings, but I don't ride for long times- 30 minute sessions in the trails, with awesome performance. And the motor starts up instantly if I stall or temporarily shut down.

Interesting on valve settings. Okierider is correct coming from Henner on .002 inch (.05mm). I too ran my valves open more similar to your .007 with zero change in performance until I had valve chatter under load that caused me to change the settings. This engine (ZS172FMM3-A) has been around since early 2000s in UK. Recommendations are to set valves at .06mm intake & .008mm exhaust.

Russian forums talk about the same stuff as us here but they have more experience and rely on there machines more than a hobby. An interesting possible difference I see there 2 layer head gasket vs our 3 layer.

Who knows if it's factual or BS but the increase in gasket thickness allows for a decrease in compression providing the Chinese an inexpensive way to meet lower NOX gas / EPA requirements to import to US. It could be the earlier engines are assembled differently than new models.

The reason I mention the head gasket is in theory it would allow for a larger valve gap.

Maybe more importantly is to ensure your at TDC on this motor because it does have a decompression valve. Make sure you line up the markings in the sight hole on flywheel and the timing gear marks by removing the timing gear cover for insurance.

Tusk makes a great feeler gauge that's tapered easily fits under the rocker Valves will post link.

Tusk Tapered Feeler Gauge Set https://a.co/d/8rZAzEx

[Okierider]

I’ll have to dig through the last 20 pages but Nutcracker came up with some from watching foreign YouTube videos about the bike.

So finally got the Mikuni 28 hooked up. Fit the rubber nipple to the head perfectly. Smaller than the stock unit so easy to get in, but the fuel nipple is substantially larger than the stock one so that took some finessing.
Fired it up and after I realized that I had left it on choke (why does it sound like it’s exploding?!) I started tuning per the Mikuni OZ instructional videos.
Ho
Lee
Krap

It doesn’t even sound like the same bike. Much, much more presence. Where the stock exhaust was somewhat quiet, tinny and almost whisky, this is full throated and quite a bit louder, much more base. Sounds much more powerful.
As for throttle response-orders of magnitude better. Slammed from idle to full throttle and the bike just revs, much faster than stock. There is obviously more air/fuel making it into the bike now.
I don’t even have it fully assembled lol. I just threw a foam sock over the intake side of the carb to see if it would start and boy did it. Tomorrow (assuming I’m still here and not blown away to Oz, I’ll put the intake boot and airbox back together and start thoroughly tuning. I understand that carbs require a somewhat longer intake and can’t run well without a velocity stack funneling air into it so I’m sure it’ll run even better…God willing.

Also received my 40 tooth sprocket today. Lots to do with this bike but so little time.

Edit: Forgot to add, there is one issue-the intake manifold was made to mate to a 50mm OD carburetor, as the stock model is.
The VM28 is only 44mm OD.
So, I need to add 6mm of shims to make it work lol.
I’m currently looking for some 44mm ID rubber hose. Failing that 3mm rubber sheeting. Self adhesive would be great but I can glue it in place, then crank down on the hose clamp over the intake.

[Thumper]

I just reinstalled the OEM YouAll smooth bore PE 28, YUP, it is a polished carb! Bumped stock jets:
Main, 120 to 125
Pilot, 40 to 45.
Shimmed the needle with one washer (about 1mm). The needle is held down by a simple pinch released disk. Cool! And the heavy duty carb spring holds that down too. AND, the slide is polished too!

I like this stock carb. And the air filter is a large oiled cover-high flow!! I will post photos of the polished smoothbore. Impressive. This whole bike is amazing!

I set intake to 0.04mm, exhaust to 0.05mm
Both were a little tighter, but had gap. The valve stem contacts on the Zongshen 249cc CB250F have swiveling heads!

[Nutcracker]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I just reinstalled the OEM YouAll smooth bore PE 28, YUP, it is a polished carb! Bumped stock jets:
Main, 120 to 125
Pilot, 40 to 45.
Shimmed the needle with one washer (about 1mm). The needle is held down by a simple pinch released disk. Cool! And the heavy duty carb spring holds that down too. AND, the slide is polished too!

I like this stock carb. I will post photos of the polished smoothbore. Impressive. This whole bike is amazing!

Does is operate as well as Okieriders Mikuni 28? Whats the results?

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker

Does is operate as well as Okieriders Mikuni 28? Whats the results?

I haven't got it all back together yet.

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker

Does is operate as well as Okieriders Mikuni 28? Whats the results?

I’m not sure we could really say unless we met up.
Interesting note: even my wife noticed. I came in from the garage sure now that my pilot jet (60 from the factory, 200 main) is too large per Mikuni tuning guides, and wifey asks “Are you done? It sounds SO much better!”
No dear…tinkering isn’t never done lol

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Okierider

I’m not sure we could really say unless we met up.
Interesting note: even my wife noticed. I came in from the garage sure now that my pilot jet (60 from the factory, 200 main) is too large per Mikuni tuning guides, and wifey asks “Are you done? It sounds SO much better!”
No dear…tinkering isn’t never done lol

HaHa, But true! I will have a clue anyway. I didn't open up the gaps (valves) as high at 0.07", but I am riding it light for now (first good oil only has a couple of hours on it!

But here are a couple of picks of the OEM YouALL carb I took before I put it back on.





Here it is after re-install, viewed through the beefy frame stays (really astonishing quality/stiffness). Keep in mind, the bike weighs in at 258lbs, just a little more than a KTM 250.

[Okierider]

Doesn’t the stock unit use Kiehin jets?
Those things are a dime a dozen.