Hawk CDI

Red Hawk · 11-05-2018, 09:19 PM

I picked up a spare AC CDI from VMC to fill my OCD spare parts list.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-AC-...72.m2749.l2649

It's a little smaller but it works.. Except the tac doesn't move at all. It's advertised as compatable to the Hawk spec and a few others. If I plug in the old CDI the tac works againe. Weird right? Any ideas ?

Next part to find is a voltage regulator.

**JerryHawk250** · 11-06-2018, 08:47 AM

You want to look for one that is tuned for the CG250 and not the GY6. https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-CDI-Box-...frcectupt=true

Red Hawk · 11-06-2018, 12:20 PM

Thanks JerryHawk250 will do !

NzBrakelathes · 11-15-2018, 08:24 AM

You bought a $1.50 unit from China markets (sane thing)
I actually bought a $20 unit from my Chinese factory who custom make high quality CDI
Even the guys here in China spend about $5 locally to get a half decent one
The price tag says it all

NzBrakelathes · 11-15-2018, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

You want to look for one that is tuned for the CG250 and not the GY6. https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-CDI-Box-...frcectupt=true

That’s an AC square plug connector
He bought the DC roundish plug connector
Kinda different there
Also all the GY6 CB CG have the same bump on the flywheel and length so timing and curve is all the same, better off with no rev limit or a decent quality and I don’t suggest altering timing as things can go wrong quick unless you really know that you’re doing

Plump Kibbles · 09-08-2020, 01:49 AM

Hey guys - newly assembled KTM orange X-Pro DLX version here! Not sure - but I'm almost positive this is a Hawk 250 (229cc LOL) with a little less weight and came off the truck about 90% assembled. No liquid cooling; all air cooled.

So - on the topic of the CDI boxes.. I got one of the blue ones that you can grab on Amazon for a little bit of nothing; and it works! AC CDI - the 'racing' bit I'm sure does absolutely nothing. Pretty sure I smelled burnt rice afterwards (HA!)..

Anyway.. LOVE the bike, tons of fun already. Just waiting to get into the DMV to get my bike registered. From VA btw - small little town just outside of WV; spare the jokes, I know them all.

@NzBrakelathes: You were the only person I saw online upon Googling the CDI boxes - and noticed you stated that all the GY, CB, and CG engines are the 'same' in terms of timing and such. So, does that mean (obvioulsy vertical or horizontal) that, let's say my bike is AC, and I grab another 'unlocked' CDI like I have (lets say the orange one) - is the 'mapping' the same across the board for horizontal and vertical engines for these 'performance' boxes?

I will have to note: upon a cold start, she don't wanna run.. takes a few good cranks to get the bike going, but after it warms up she's good. Maybe the 'racing' CDI is a little much for it? Can't see how though; just a simple circuit. . .

I'm going to play with the carb tomorrow and get my mix down; didn't adjust like an idiot after changing carb and new high-flow filter. Already replaced the PZ30 with a Mikuni, changed 'break in' oil before even cranking the engine, and removed the SAI air system and popped a blocker on the exhaust port.

Just an FYI to anyone reading this wondering about the CDI's... on the smaller plug, there will be two wires if AC, one if DC. And some oddballs here and there will have rounded plugs for AC / DC style connectors - but that's a pretty specific situation.

Bruces · 09-08-2020, 06:04 AM

Did you adjust your valves ? That will help with the cold starting .
Megadan did a few tests with different cdi’s ,not sure where it is but it’s on this site somewhere .

Plump Kibbles · 09-08-2020, 05:47 PM

I haven't done anything to the valves just yet. Re-tuned the mix and it seems to be running much better; no backfire on down-rev.

Although - I'm not exactly sure if I have a cat converter or not. At the first bend of the header pipe, just after, there's what appears to me to be a resonator? But, I don't have welding equipment or the know-how to weld so I may replace with a decatted exhaust sometime. I also did not receive any spark arrest screens on my muffler; and not only that, the muffler looks like something from a Ninja or Jigster lol.. Love the sound with the db silencer out, though. Much deeper! I removed the evap valve crap too; just in the way.

Back to the valves - I may or may not... I'm not sure if the valves are the problem more than the mix being out-of-whack after changing carbs and intake filters. Pretty neat trick to adjusting the mix too - raise the idler, then move the mixing screw in until it bogs - then slowly back it out and listen for the highest rpm through the adjustment. Too far either way and the bike may stall or sputter. Also picked up an iridium plug - 12k rpm - before I was topping out at maybe around 10k before the limiter kicks in. Got up to 70 just a little bit ago... man I wish I could just add a 6th gear instead of swapping the engine.

Would the valves also have something to do with (before I adjusted mix) after getting it to start, maybe 5 times or so, on a cold start mind you, 3/4 throttle is okay; the bike kicks nice and solid. But, if I hit WOT - it bogs out and stalls from idle ~1500rpm. I'm done with my adjustments and after taking it for a ride, I noticed I was popping up the front tire! I don't have, or haven't yet, changed the sprockets or chain. My X-Pro seems to be maybe a little 'higher class' than the Hawk? I didn't have the front sprocket out of alignment like I've seen online.. or maybe it was just a bad batch from the factory.

Filter I got was from Amazon, like most everything comes from now-a-days:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

CDI that I'm using: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

^^^^ MUCH, MUCH better low end torque

And here's some 10 dollar brush guards as well. Actually not bad at all! cheap, flimsy plastic; but does the job! And if they break off - meh, 10 bucks lol
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm getting back into the dual-sport adventures - I was living in Las Vegas NV before the pandemic and had a GS650 BMW. This X-Pro is WAY BETTER than that BMW; by miles. Way cheaper as well! I just have to adjust to having a 250cc, well 229cc but she goes! That GS650 was about 500lbs filled up.. and then, rolling over some logs, stupid me kept going, dumped the bike, then it bounced off my leg crushing my ankle between some rocks - but didn't break -_-

Thanks for the info and reply! I'll have to take a look at the valves one day. Although, I noticed there was some head sealant around where it separates. Most of what I have researched about the valves is on the Hawk, and I do have a Zongshen as well. But, there doesn't seem to be any sealant on the Hawk engines.. or maybe I'm just wrong and don't know. I'll report some results soon!

franque · 09-08-2020, 06:28 PM

It depends on if it's a pushrod or ohc. If it's ohc, there are two caps that unscrew, rather than the entire cover if it's pushrod. What looks like it's a cover (if ohc) is an integral part of the head, if you remove it, the head needs to be retorqued, and you won't be able to adjust the valves anyway, as the rocker arms are in that part of the head.

Plump Kibbles · 09-08-2020, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franque

It depends on if it's a pushrod or ohc. If it's ohc, there are two caps that unscrew, rather than the entire cover if it's pushrod. What looks like it's a cover (if ohc) is an integral part of the head, if you remove it, the head needs to be retorqued, and you won't be able to adjust the valves anyway, as the rocker arms are in that part of the head.

Kind of 100% positive it isn't the push rods or cam.. new engine - apart from the break-in. And I haven't even taken it off road that much yet due to the spark arrestor not being there.

I did just have it out for a bit - went to a field and rod some hills; not bad. No apparent issues that I can tell. The filter I posted a link to may not be the best filter though. I tried it compared to the filter that came with my Mikuni and everything works well, but WOT with the other cone or pod filter seemed to leave the engine gasping for some air.

Back to why I originally posted: I'm going to swap out for the stock CDI and see if there's any difference in starting from cold. If so - may return, may keep, idk. Does anyone happen to know if the stock CDI's are limited?

franque · 09-08-2020, 09:06 PM

I was talking about valve adjustment, not providing a diagnosis.

Additionally, these bikes aren't shipping with an intake port that can outflow the filter, the filter isn't your problem.

You could be actually having too much flow, so that the intake velocity drops off to nil when you crack the throttle wide open. You could try taping off the filter bit by bit to see if it improves.

It isn't an issue of the CDI being limited.

My guess is that the jetting still needs to be adjusted, but also, more importantly, the valves need to be checked and adjusted. Every Chinese bike needs this, both on initial assembly, and during/after break in. It needs to cool off overnight first though. It doesn't matter if you paid for an assembly service, even then, they never do that. Just check the valves, adjust the air idle mixture screw, and report back.

Plump Kibbles · 09-09-2020, 12:05 AM

May be true for most - but my case is as such:

Pod filter restricts the flow - foamie filter (Uni) that came with the Mikuni = no issues.

Air flow is key. The pod may do fine at lower RPMs but not at higher; which with mine, it's restricting the flow. For 6 bucks, couldn't have expected more but thought I'd give it a whirl anyway. I remember playing that game tuning my car and having to manually scale my MAF for the tune. BIG pain in the @$$.. Also have seen people bash their heads against the wall because their MAF o-ring was throwing CEL's. The smallest leak - who knew..

Valves will be taken a look at when I get a solid spec sheet on my engine. It IS a Zongshen 250cc but one of the 2020 models. I'm sure that has no effect to assembly and 'quality control'; or if anything is different. Like I said before - I haven't seen any reviews or anything on the X-Pro model. Obviously loads for the Hawk. The engine does look a little different than the Hawks - example: I don't have an oil filter, just a screen! And the fact that the book it came with doesn't list the model I have in the book... all the ones in my manual have liquid cooling and doesn't even have spark plug torque spec (10ftlbs). I don't have any bangs or clatter that would suggest any valve issues - but again never looked at them. Xmotos brand btw...

I'll grab what I can from the ol' internet on my engine if I can find anything on it. First Chinese bike - so I'm sure I'll find some things out of whack.

Not saying anyone is wrong, franque - and if I came off callus, apologies

My jets should be fine though - really picked up the power after changing the PZ30 out. Did not install any jets in the Mikuni - pre-installed. Main jet is 100 or 105, slow jet is 40 I believe.. if I remember correctly - the slow is 38 (PZ30) and it's a hair bigger on the Mikuni, I believe a 40. I almost immediately swapped out carbs due to being stuck running on half-choke.. One thing is certain - after the carb, filter, mix adjust, and 'racing' CDI, I can reach 70mph (eventually, jeez) and I'm starting to pop the front tire up going into second.. Think I'm getting close for now until the valves get some eyeball time.

I'll get back on tomorrow with more detail and pics of the engine and setup.

franque · 09-09-2020, 04:49 AM

You don't need the most up-to-date specs. It's 99%+ probable that it's a 165 or 166fmm, which would mean between .002-.004" clearance for the valves, a.k.a. .05-.1 mm. The Hawks don't strictly have a filter either. Technically, all of the Honda clones do have an oil slinger attached to the oil pump, but it's not strictly a filter per se. The mesh filter piece at the bottom of the engine is standard Honda/Honda clone.

Bruces · 09-09-2020, 06:52 AM

You mentioned the valves have no banging or clattering ,everybodies experience on the China valves have been they were too tight not too loose therefore no noise .Check your valves ,they are one of your problems .

OneLeggedRider · 09-09-2020, 12:57 PM

Check the #@%& valves! I can't believe you're even attempting to tune it without adjusting them first. Every China bike comes with them screwed down tight. 0.002" intake and 0.003" exhaust. Or for added piece of mind, 0.003" intake and 0.004" exhaust.

11-05-2018, 09:19 PM	#1
Red Hawk Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: NEPA Posts: 273	Hawk CDI I picked up a spare AC CDI from VMC to fill my OCD spare parts list. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-AC-...72.m2749.l2649 It's a little smaller but it works.. Except the tac doesn't move at all. It's advertised as compatable to the Hawk spec and a few others. If I plug in the old CDI the tac works againe. Weird right? Any ideas ? Next part to find is a voltage regulator. __________________ 2018 Hawk P&P Decked .040 off the head. 17/43 D.I.D. 428, NGK Iridium plug, DeCat, Wrapped pipe, Custom S.S. Muffler core, Nibbi PE30 115/35, L.E.D. Lights, Digital Cluster, USB port, Cutting Bord skid plate, Oil cooler w/ custom CRF oil filter inline, 5Wt fork oil, Rear Shock, CNC Back Rack, 30mm FAT bars, Bark Busters, ProGrips, Adjustable levers, Shinko 700’s lots of Loctite!
	0

11-06-2018, 08:47 AM	#2
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,590	You want to look for one that is tuned for the CG250 and not the GY6. https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-CDI-Box-...frcectupt=true __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	1

11-06-2018, 12:20 PM	#3
Red Hawk Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: NEPA Posts: 273	Thanks JerryHawk250 will do ! __________________ 2018 Hawk P&P Decked .040 off the head. 17/43 D.I.D. 428, NGK Iridium plug, DeCat, Wrapped pipe, Custom S.S. Muffler core, Nibbi PE30 115/35, L.E.D. Lights, Digital Cluster, USB port, Cutting Bord skid plate, Oil cooler w/ custom CRF oil filter inline, 5Wt fork oil, Rear Shock, CNC Back Rack, 30mm FAT bars, Bark Busters, ProGrips, Adjustable levers, Shinko 700’s lots of Loctite!
	0

09-09-2020, 12:57 PM	#15
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	Check the #@%& valves! I can't believe you're even attempting to tune it without adjusting them first. Every China bike comes with them screwed down tight. 0.002" intake and 0.003" exhaust. Or for added piece of mind, 0.003" intake and 0.004" exhaust. __________________ ~ Don't poke the bear ~ M.M.I. Dean's List graduate class of '95 and Specialty welder 2020 Ice Bear Terifecta 150cc Trike 2011 Honda Foreman 500ES 4x4 2001 Polaris Scrambler 400
	1

11-15-2018, 08:24 AM	#4
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	You bought a $1.50 unit from China markets (sane thing) I actually bought a $20 unit from my Chinese factory who custom make high quality CDI Even the guys here in China spend about $5 locally to get a half decent one The price tag says it all
	0

09-08-2020, 01:49 AM	#6
Plump Kibbles Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 233	Hey guys - newly assembled KTM orange X-Pro DLX version here! Not sure - but I'm almost positive this is a Hawk 250 (229cc LOL) with a little less weight and came off the truck about 90% assembled. No liquid cooling; all air cooled. So - on the topic of the CDI boxes.. I got one of the blue ones that you can grab on Amazon for a little bit of nothing; and it works! AC CDI - the 'racing' bit I'm sure does absolutely nothing. Pretty sure I smelled burnt rice afterwards (HA!).. Anyway.. LOVE the bike, tons of fun already. Just waiting to get into the DMV to get my bike registered. From VA btw - small little town just outside of WV; spare the jokes, I know them all. @NzBrakelathes: You were the only person I saw online upon Googling the CDI boxes - and noticed you stated that all the GY, CB, and CG engines are the 'same' in terms of timing and such. So, does that mean (obvioulsy vertical or horizontal) that, let's say my bike is AC, and I grab another 'unlocked' CDI like I have (lets say the orange one) - is the 'mapping' the same across the board for horizontal and vertical engines for these 'performance' boxes? I will have to note: upon a cold start, she don't wanna run.. takes a few good cranks to get the bike going, but after it warms up she's good. Maybe the 'racing' CDI is a little much for it? Can't see how though; just a simple circuit. . . I'm going to play with the carb tomorrow and get my mix down; didn't adjust like an idiot after changing carb and new high-flow filter. Already replaced the PZ30 with a Mikuni, changed 'break in' oil before even cranking the engine, and removed the SAI air system and popped a blocker on the exhaust port. Just an FYI to anyone reading this wondering about the CDI's... on the smaller plug, there will be two wires if AC, one if DC. And some oddballs here and there will have rounded plugs for AC / DC style connectors - but that's a pretty specific situation.
	0

09-08-2020, 06:04 AM	#7
Bruces Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 1,588	Did you adjust your valves ? That will help with the cold starting . Megadan did a few tests with different cdi’s ,not sure where it is but it’s on this site somewhere .
	0

09-08-2020, 05:47 PM	#8
Plump Kibbles Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 233	I haven't done anything to the valves just yet. Re-tuned the mix and it seems to be running much better; no backfire on down-rev. Although - I'm not exactly sure if I have a cat converter or not. At the first bend of the header pipe, just after, there's what appears to me to be a resonator? But, I don't have welding equipment or the know-how to weld so I may replace with a decatted exhaust sometime. I also did not receive any spark arrest screens on my muffler; and not only that, the muffler looks like something from a Ninja or Jigster lol.. Love the sound with the db silencer out, though. Much deeper! I removed the evap valve crap too; just in the way. Back to the valves - I may or may not... I'm not sure if the valves are the problem more than the mix being out-of-whack after changing carbs and intake filters. Pretty neat trick to adjusting the mix too - raise the idler, then move the mixing screw in until it bogs - then slowly back it out and listen for the highest rpm through the adjustment. Too far either way and the bike may stall or sputter. Also picked up an iridium plug - 12k rpm - before I was topping out at maybe around 10k before the limiter kicks in. Got up to 70 just a little bit ago... man I wish I could just add a 6th gear instead of swapping the engine. Would the valves also have something to do with (before I adjusted mix) after getting it to start, maybe 5 times or so, on a cold start mind you, 3/4 throttle is okay; the bike kicks nice and solid. But, if I hit WOT - it bogs out and stalls from idle ~1500rpm. I'm done with my adjustments and after taking it for a ride, I noticed I was popping up the front tire! I don't have, or haven't yet, changed the sprockets or chain. My X-Pro seems to be maybe a little 'higher class' than the Hawk? I didn't have the front sprocket out of alignment like I've seen online.. or maybe it was just a bad batch from the factory. Filter I got was from Amazon, like most everything comes from now-a-days: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 CDI that I'm using: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ^^^^ MUCH, MUCH better low end torque And here's some 10 dollar brush guards as well. Actually not bad at all! cheap, flimsy plastic; but does the job! And if they break off - meh, 10 bucks lol https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I'm getting back into the dual-sport adventures - I was living in Las Vegas NV before the pandemic and had a GS650 BMW. This X-Pro is WAY BETTER than that BMW; by miles. Way cheaper as well! I just have to adjust to having a 250cc, well 229cc but she goes! That GS650 was about 500lbs filled up.. and then, rolling over some logs, stupid me kept going, dumped the bike, then it bounced off my leg crushing my ankle between some rocks - but didn't break -_- Thanks for the info and reply! I'll have to take a look at the valves one day. Although, I noticed there was some head sealant around where it separates. Most of what I have researched about the valves is on the Hawk, and I do have a Zongshen as well. But, there doesn't seem to be any sealant on the Hawk engines.. or maybe I'm just wrong and don't know. I'll report some results soon!
	0

09-08-2020, 06:28 PM	#9
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	It depends on if it's a pushrod or ohc. If it's ohc, there are two caps that unscrew, rather than the entire cover if it's pushrod. What looks like it's a cover (if ohc) is an integral part of the head, if you remove it, the head needs to be retorqued, and you won't be able to adjust the valves anyway, as the rocker arms are in that part of the head.
	0

09-08-2020, 09:06 PM	#11
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	I was talking about valve adjustment, not providing a diagnosis. Additionally, these bikes aren't shipping with an intake port that can outflow the filter, the filter isn't your problem. You could be actually having too much flow, so that the intake velocity drops off to nil when you crack the throttle wide open. You could try taping off the filter bit by bit to see if it improves. It isn't an issue of the CDI being limited. My guess is that the jetting still needs to be adjusted, but also, more importantly, the valves need to be checked and adjusted. Every Chinese bike needs this, both on initial assembly, and during/after break in. It needs to cool off overnight first though. It doesn't matter if you paid for an assembly service, even then, they never do that. Just check the valves, adjust the air idle mixture screw, and report back.
	1

09-09-2020, 12:05 AM	#12
Plump Kibbles Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 233	May be true for most - but my case is as such: Pod filter restricts the flow - foamie filter (Uni) that came with the Mikuni = no issues. Air flow is key. The pod may do fine at lower RPMs but not at higher; which with mine, it's restricting the flow. For 6 bucks, couldn't have expected more but thought I'd give it a whirl anyway. I remember playing that game tuning my car and having to manually scale my MAF for the tune. BIG pain in the @$$.. Also have seen people bash their heads against the wall because their MAF o-ring was throwing CEL's. The smallest leak - who knew.. Valves will be taken a look at when I get a solid spec sheet on my engine. It IS a Zongshen 250cc but one of the 2020 models. I'm sure that has no effect to assembly and 'quality control'; or if anything is different. Like I said before - I haven't seen any reviews or anything on the X-Pro model. Obviously loads for the Hawk. The engine does look a little different than the Hawks - example: I don't have an oil filter, just a screen! And the fact that the book it came with doesn't list the model I have in the book... all the ones in my manual have liquid cooling and doesn't even have spark plug torque spec (10ftlbs). I don't have any bangs or clatter that would suggest any valve issues - but again never looked at them. Xmotos brand btw... I'll grab what I can from the ol' internet on my engine if I can find anything on it. First Chinese bike - so I'm sure I'll find some things out of whack. Not saying anyone is wrong, franque - and if I came off callus, apologies My jets should be fine though - really picked up the power after changing the PZ30 out. Did not install any jets in the Mikuni - pre-installed. Main jet is 100 or 105, slow jet is 40 I believe.. if I remember correctly - the slow is 38 (PZ30) and it's a hair bigger on the Mikuni, I believe a 40. I almost immediately swapped out carbs due to being stuck running on half-choke.. One thing is certain - after the carb, filter, mix adjust, and 'racing' CDI, I can reach 70mph (eventually, jeez) and I'm starting to pop the front tire up going into second.. Think I'm getting close for now until the valves get some eyeball time. I'll get back on tomorrow with more detail and pics of the engine and setup.
	0

09-09-2020, 04:49 AM	#13
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	You don't need the most up-to-date specs. It's 99%+ probable that it's a 165 or 166fmm, which would mean between .002-.004" clearance for the valves, a.k.a. .05-.1 mm. The Hawks don't strictly have a filter either. Technically, all of the Honda clones do have an oil slinger attached to the oil pump, but it's not strictly a filter per se. The mesh filter piece at the bottom of the engine is standard Honda/Honda clone.
	1

09-09-2020, 06:52 AM	#14
Bruces Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 1,588	You mentioned the valves have no banging or clattering ,everybodies experience on the China valves have been they were too tight not too loose therefore no noise .Check your valves ,they are one of your problems .
	1