2 stroke is STILL unlikely, but I will ask!

Thumper · 07-21-2022, 06:48 PM

So we see lots of new stuff on the Chinese bike market, but the 2 stroke bikes still seem totally limited to a few small dirt bikes, scooters.

The entry level for a dirt bike seems to be the GPX which lists over $5000 and the next level jumps to $7k, and then $10k!!! Sure, the GPX makes about 40hp (that's nice

) but I wonder why we just don't see a 150cc or 200cc budget model??? The Zuumav 4 stroke bikes are a bargain for streetable dual sport oriented towards off-road, but a 2-stroke alternative could easily add another 10hp without costing anymore for the manufacturer's processes.

I wonder if we will ever see this? I just don't have $5000 spare change to buy the GPX

Megadan · 07-21-2022, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

So we see lots of new stuff on the Chinese bike market, but the 2 stroke bikes still seem totally limited to a few small dirt bikes, scooters.

The entry level for a dirt bike seems to be the GPX which lists over $5000. Sure, it makes about 40hp (that's nice

) but I wonder why we just don't see a 150cc or 200cc budget model??? The Zuumav 4 stroke bikes are a bargain for streetable dual sport oriented towards off-road, but a 2-stroke alternative could easily add another 10hp without costing anymore for the manufacturer's processes.

I wonder if we will ever see this? I just don't have $5000 spare change to buy the GPX

Not likely. 2 strokes have faded away from most markets for a few reasons. One big one is emissions laws. 2 strokes are dirty and pump out a lot of unburned hydrocarbons.

Another big reason is that in most markets 2 strokes are out of favor due to being just a bit more "high maintenance" than most 4 strokes. And yes, 2 stroke heads will go on and on and on about how "easy" a top end is, but a full top end rebuild is still a decent amount of work that needs to be done much more often than any major cylinder or head work does on a 4 stroke.

I am not saying I don't love a good 2 stroke though. For all their "problems" it's hard to not love the power they make when tuned properly.

Thumper · 07-21-2022, 08:39 PM

I would put up with the occasional rebuild. Small price to pay for the power/weight ratio. They realy are easy to work with. I rebuilt the 2stroke engine on my first bike, which was a 1970's Suzuki TS250. I had to replace the countershaft and a gear that was stuck on it. Those parts, new seals on the shafts, new main bearings, and a gasket set. I did an overbore piston kit, had the cylinder bored out, made it a 270cc bike, added an expansion chamber, and I was shocked at what I had transformed the thing into

Let off the gas and it would keep running (too lean)...Once I rejet the thing, it ran nice! I had a blast!

If it breaks, I have the Storm and the Templar. OK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

Not likely. 2 strokes have faded away from most markets for a few reasons. One big one is emissions laws. 2 strokes are dirty and pump out a lot of unburned hydrocarbons.

Another big reason is that in most markets 2 strokes are out of favor due to being just a bit more "high maintenance" than most 4 strokes. And yes, 2 stroke heads will go on and on and on about how "easy" a top end is, but a full top end rebuild is still a decent amount of work that needs to be done much more often than any major cylinder or head work does on a 4 stroke.

I am not saying I don't love a good 2 stroke though. For all their "problems" it's hard to not love the power they make when tuned properly.

Megadan · 07-21-2022, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper

I would put up with the occasional rebuild. Small price to pay for the power/weight ratio. They realy are easy to work with. I rebuilt the 2stroke engine on my first bike, which was a 1970's Suzuki TS250. I had to replace the countershaft and a gear that was stuck on it. Those parts, new seals on the shafts, new main bearings, and a gasket set. I did an overbore piston kit, had the cylinder bored out, made it a 270cc bike, added an expansion chamber, and I was shocked at what I had transformed the thing into

Let off the gas and it would keep running (too lean)...Once I rejet the thing, it ran nice! I had a blast!

If it breaks, I have the Storm and the Templar. OK.

Yeah, but you and I are the exception, not the rule, when it comes to the kind of work the bikes may need. We aren't afraid to dive in and do seals, shafts, bearings etc. The market is driven by the largest common denominator, which is unfortunately not us.

CGcloner229 · 09-03-2022, 01:24 PM

I kno this is a lil old but the company gas gas is killing it. My dream is life is to eventually have my sick 2 stroke. Among other things. ANYWAYS, the gas gas 500 2 stroke and i believ their going for a 700 2 stroke monster!

CGcloner229 · 09-10-2022, 12:18 PM

Megadan u r one of the most knowledgable peeps on here for real but i have to kindly disagree that 2 strokes are making a come back. I mean have you seen the gas gas 2 strokes.that are breaking records everywhere, even workingon a 70cc monster. !

Thumper · 09-10-2022, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGcloner229

Megadan u r one of the most knowledgable peeps on here for real but i have to kindly disagree that 2 strokes are making a come back. I mean have you seen the gas gas 2 strokes.that are breaking records everywhere, even workingon a 70cc monster. !

Although there is currently a reasonable market for two stroke racing bikes, and cheap scooters and mopeds, it is not easy to get permission to import and sell two stroke vehicles. Even chainsaws are emasculated and carbs are locked up.

Unfortunately, I think that Megadan is right about this. If you want a two stroke bike, it might be wise to pony up the price of admission for a GPX TSE 250R. Oh, I am SURE you will not be disappointed! But the window may be closing on the availability of these awesome bikes.

Wild Dog · 09-10-2022, 08:46 PM

2 strokes are going away and the chinese are well aware of that. They are pumping out electric motorcycles rather than 2 strokes.
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So it's most likely they will swarm your market with electric motorcycles than a street legal 2 stroke

I used love 2 stroke, now i hate them. The only good thing they have going on is that they have a better weight/power ratio than a 4 stroke.
After that, everything is negative.

Yes they are easier to fix, but you will have to fix them more often and if you have to do a bottom rebuild, chances ares that it's going to be a nightmare after that...

"ohhh the piston seized, because i was cruising the same speed for too long".

"WD40 Fragance?? pfff 2 Stroke oil smell is the new rage".

Maiphut · 09-21-2022, 01:08 AM

There is this https://perthpitbikes.com.au/product/ex150/

Copy of KTM/Husky 150xc. I haven't been able to find any information or reviews on it anywhere besides the retailers show ride.

At 40% the price of the real deal it is appealing to me.

Thumper · 09-21-2022, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maiphut

There is this https://perthpitbikes.com.au/product/ex150/

Copy of KTM/Husky 150xc. I haven't been able to find any information or reviews on it anywhere besides the retailers show ride.

At 40% the price of the real deal it is appealing to me.

I LIKE it. A 125cc 2 stroke can be real torquey. I rode a CanAm MX 125 back in the 70s, and it was impressive! 150cc would be that much better.

Australia imposes HEAVY import duties which double the price of cars, trucks, motorcycles. My brother and his family have lived there for decades, and his wife was born there.

So the real price of buying it from the distributor in China is probably $1400 per unit. No kidding! The problem is getting an importer in the US to buy a lot of them and offer them for sale here. No takers so far, other than a few tiny pit bikes and scooters.

alex_in_az · 09-21-2022, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maiphut

There is this https://perthpitbikes.com.au/product/ex150/

Copy of KTM/Husky 150xc. I haven't been able to find any information or reviews on it anywhere besides the retailers show ride.

At 40% the price of the real deal it is appealing to me.

no way that bike makes 40bhp at 12k rpm

Thumper · 09-21-2022, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex_in_az

no way that bike makes 40bhp at 12k rpm

...and it doesn't cost $9000 !

**JerryHawk250** · 09-21-2022, 04:33 PM

There is the GPX TSE 250R. You got to pay to play. https://gpxmoto.com/product/tse-250r/

Magician16 · 09-21-2022, 05:38 PM

I rode a Yamaha 2 stroke in the early 70's, and at 250cc I think it had about 25 hp.

Maiphut · 09-21-2022, 05:40 PM

Yes doubtfull of some of the specs on it.

Bit confusing it has Takasago Excel rims or they knock offs too I guess.

GPX doesen't have an importer in australia afaik, I have been looking since they first came out with the TSE250r. I suspect because of the price they will not sell here, at a guess they would retail just under $10k AUD which you might aswell just get a Jap bike for a grand more. Rough figures. They would also have to go through ADR for rego. I think they are bringing in some stupid rule all bikes have to have ABS braking for rego.

I'm not interested in rego myself have my own land to ride on. If I was financially better off I'd snap one of those ex150's up. That class of bike appeals to me atm alongside the 450.

07-21-2022, 06:48 PM	#1
Thumper Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,403	2 stroke is STILL unlikely, but I will ask! So we see lots of new stuff on the Chinese bike market, but the 2 stroke bikes still seem totally limited to a few small dirt bikes, scooters. The entry level for a dirt bike seems to be the GPX which lists over $5000 and the next level jumps to $7k, and then $10k!!! Sure, the GPX makes about 40hp (that's nice) but I wonder why we just don't see a 150cc or 200cc budget model??? The Zuumav 4 stroke bikes are a bargain for streetable dual sport oriented towards off-road, but a 2-stroke alternative could easily add another 10hp without costing anymore for the manufacturer's processes. I wonder if we will ever see this? I just don't have $5000 spare change to buy the GPX
	1

09-10-2022, 08:46 PM	#8
Wild Dog Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Argentina Posts: 756	2 strokes are going away and the chinese are well aware of that. They are pumping out electric motorcycles rather than 2 strokes. So it's most likely they will swarm your market with electric motorcycles than a street legal 2 stroke I used love 2 stroke, now i hate them. The only good thing they have going on is that they have a better weight/power ratio than a 4 stroke. After that, everything is negative. Yes they are easier to fix, but you will have to fix them more often and if you have to do a bottom rebuild, chances ares that it's going to be a nightmare after that... "ohhh the piston seized, because i was cruising the same speed for too long". "WD40 Fragance?? pfff 2 Stroke oil smell is the new rage".
	0

09-21-2022, 04:33 PM	#13
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,585	There is the GPX TSE 250R. You got to pay to play. https://gpxmoto.com/product/tse-250r/ __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	2

09-21-2022, 05:38 PM	#14
Magician16 Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 469	I rode a Yamaha 2 stroke in the early 70's, and at 250cc I think it had about 25 hp. __________________ 2018 Bashan Storm(sold) 2016 Magician 250
	0

09-03-2022, 01:24 PM	#5
CGcloner229 Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 68	I kno this is a lil old but the company gas gas is killing it. My dream is life is to eventually have my sick 2 stroke. Among other things. ANYWAYS, the gas gas 500 2 stroke and i believ their going for a 700 2 stroke monster!
	0

09-10-2022, 12:18 PM	#6
CGcloner229 Join Date: Mar 2022 Posts: 68	Megadan u r one of the most knowledgable peeps on here for real but i have to kindly disagree that 2 strokes are making a come back. I mean have you seen the gas gas 2 strokes.that are breaking records everywhere, even workingon a 70cc monster. !
	0

09-21-2022, 01:08 AM	#9
Maiphut Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 4	There is this https://perthpitbikes.com.au/product/ex150/ Copy of KTM/Husky 150xc. I haven't been able to find any information or reviews on it anywhere besides the retailers show ride. At 40% the price of the real deal it is appealing to me.
	0

09-21-2022, 05:40 PM	#15
Maiphut Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 4	Yes doubtfull of some of the specs on it. Bit confusing it has Takasago Excel rims or they knock offs too I guess. GPX doesen't have an importer in australia afaik, I have been looking since they first came out with the TSE250r. I suspect because of the price they will not sell here, at a guess they would retail just under $10k AUD which you might aswell just get a Jap bike for a grand more. Rough figures. They would also have to go through ADR for rego. I think they are bringing in some stupid rule all bikes have to have ABS braking for rego. I'm not interested in rego myself have my own land to ride on. If I was financially better off I'd snap one of those ex150's up. That class of bike appeals to me atm alongside the 450.
	0