Noobie advice needed pre-purchase

[Maat922]

Hi all, I came to ask the experts. I want an on/off road bike that has kickstart AND electric start, is as powerful as can be for a Chinese 250 class bike, and is hopefully reliable.

A kid near me has a tao tao tbr7 for sale for $1100 and that seems like a good deal and all, but I don't know anything about these engines. I assume a modern Chinese 250 wouldn't keep up with a 30yo KLR250 and there's varying degrees of horsepower. I want something that will safely hit 70mph if called upon to do so. Any advice?

[Megadan]

Nothing cheaper than 2 grand meets your criteria, sorry to say. The cg engine is a great engine, but it isn't known for its top end horsepower. You will want something with an OHC motor at a minimum.

[Maat922]

I'm not super concerned with price. It can be over $2000, don't care. I just want a solid reliable machine. If that tao tao will do 65-70, and it's $1100, that's fantastic. If tao tao is junk, then I'll keep shopping.

[TominMO]

Buy once, cry once. Lifan KLX from Venom Motorsports, $3200 delivered.

You're welcome.

Edit: Meant KPX not KLX.

[Thumper]

The Zongshen 167FMM is the common pushrod CG clone making 14hp. The Zongshen 172FMM is the OHC Honda clone that makes about 19hp. There are a couple of bikes offering the 172FMM for ~$2000
Correction, just one that I know of (Templar X).

Do you want an enduro or dual sport?

[Thumper]

The Lifan KPX has the 172FMM-5 (counterbalanced 6 speed). It is a dual sport with EFI. There is an enduro called Templar X with the same engine (~$1800 right now at powersportmax). Both have adjustable suspension. I own the Templar X, just ordered a second one.
https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31046
The first one (in my garage) has the 172FMM-3A (5 speed). The one I just bought has the 172FMM-5 (counterbalanced 6 speed). Templar X comes with a smoothbore carb (not EFI). These are both great bikes.

search for Zumaav on youtube to see the bikes they sell (NC300, NC450). We don't get those liquid cooled bikes yet.

[Maat922]

Originally Posted by Thumper

The Lifan KPX has the 172FMM-5 (counterbalanced 6 speed). It is a dual sport with EFI. There is an enduro called Templar X with the same engine (~$1800 right now at powersportmax). Both have adjustable suspension. I own the Templar X, just ordered a second one.
https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31046
The first one (in my garage) has the 172FMM-3A (5 speed). The one I just bought has the 172FMM-5 (counterbalanced 6 speed). Templar X comes with a smoothbore carb (not EFI)

Are they street legal? I don't really want EFI, I like to keep things simple.

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by Maat922

Are they street legal? I don't really want EFI, I like to keep things simple.

They are street legal. Also, bear in mind that EFI has been used in all cars in the US since 1990, when carbs were in effect banned by stricter emissions regs. How often do you hear of modern cars having fuel-delivery issues, before they hit 100K miles or a lot more? Like pretty much never. Plus EFI automatically compensates for altitude variation.

For sure carbs have their place. They are easier to tune for example, and get an optimum air/fuel mix. But that tune is restricted to a range of elevation, if that matters to you. I would like to get a carby off-road bike to tinker with, so not prejudiced here.

Major design improvements over the decades are suspension, frame/swingarm stiffness, and fuel delivery. Nostalgia aside, bikes from the 1960s pretty much sucked compared to what we have today, which are better overall than race bikes of the 60s.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Maat922

Are they street legal? I don't really want EFI, I like to keep things simple.

Yes street legal. It is DOT approved, EPA compliant, mine is registered and plated, insured. My insurance (liability) costs about $40 per year on a multibike policy.
https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31046

My second Templar X is at the terminal scheduled for delivery. This bike is a full sized enduro with a taller seat height. It compresses and I am nearly flatfooted once on the bike (I am 5'10", 31" inseam). The longer shock travel is active including the amount that compresses when you sit on it (for off road suspension). The Templar has a smoothbore carburetor, not EFI. I rejet mine one step up on pilot and main jet, and it runs great. Easy.

This Templar X enduro costs about $1500 less than the fuel inject Lifan KPX (same engine), which is a dual sport style bike. There is another enduro with the same engine, EFI though- Orion RXB-250L. It is about $900 more than the Templar X. You can find these on the net, and pic here as well.

I don't see a carbed dual sport with this engine. Maybe someone here can correct me.

[kyle]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Yes street legal. It is DOT approved, EPA compliant, mine is registered and plated, insured. My insurance (liability) costs about $40 per year on a multibike policy.
https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31046

My second Templar X is at the terminal scheduled for delivery. This bike is a full sized enduro with a taller seat height. It compresses and I am nearly flatfooted once on the bike (I am 5'10", 31" inseam). The longer shock travel is active including the amount that compresses when you sit on it (for off road suspension). The Templar has a smoothbore carburetor, not EFI. I rejet mine one step up on pilot and main jet, and it runs great. Easy.

This Templar X enduro costs about $1500 less than the fuel inject Lifan KPX (same engine), which is a dual sport style bike. There is another enduro with the same engine, EFI though- Orion RXB-250L. It is about $900 more than the Templar X. You can find these on the net, and pic here as well.

I don't see a carbed dual sport with this engine. Maybe someone here can correct me.

Another vote for the templar or KPX. Everyone likes to say they don't trust the EFI but look at the numerous posts of everyone trying to get the carbs on these engines tuned right, and then try to find even one posts about EFI failing.. you'll see the light
That's if you don't mind spending a little more. You get your return just in the quality of the bike (better fasteners, forks, swing arm, engine, 6 speed, efi, warranty, etc). You still can't touch the price of a new Japanese bike for less than twice as much.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by kyle

Another vote for the templar or KPX. Everyone likes to say they don't trust the EFI but look at the numerous posts of everyone trying to get the carbs on these engines tuned right, and then try to find even one posts about EFI failing.. you'll see the light
That's if you don't mind spending a little more. You get your return just in the quality of the bike (better fasteners, forks, swing arm, engine, 6 speed, efi, warranty, etc). You still can't touch the price of a new Japanese bike for less than twice as much.

You really won't find better fasteners or components by spending more money. Templar X is shockingly well built. Top quality welding, powder coating work, stainless steel nuts bolts, bushings, washers, excellent controls including adjustable levers, massive alloy triple tree fork clamps with massive inverted KKE forks/suspension with adjustable damping and rebound, alloy wheels with heavy duty spokes, Castle alloy hubs front and rear, led lighting, tough plastic 2.9 gallon tank (no rust ever) with a petcock that has reserve, a stainless steel exhaust system, folding tip short shifter, tucked and cage style brake lever, big alloy bear claw foot pegs, and now it has the 172FFM-5 6 speed counterbalanced engine.

If you want EFI, you can get it. The smoothbore carb on the Templar X is excellent. Yes, I rejet it, and I can run it rich or lean at will, using my choice of pilot jet, needle height, and main jet, no tune file needed. Jets are cheap. I bought a complete selection of both pilots and main jets for under $20. But I haven't needed to make any changes since modest increase when I bought it.


A similar equipped KTM will cost you at least 4 times as much!!

[tknj99]

The Titan DLX/ RXB230 are the predecessors to the new RXB250 / Templar X it seems. Curious to hear what your top (gps verified) speed is and what it can comfortably cruise at. Mine is topping out at 65 corrected and cruising at 60 with a 14T front swapped in. I think ill pick up 5mph once i de-cat the exhaust based on PlumpK's experience.

[Thumper]

Which Zongshen 167 is that on the Titan DLX? It has an OHC and makes 16hp instead of 14hp. I thought it has the pushrod CG 223cc clone that is on the Bashan Storm and TBR7 .
The Templar and Templar M get the 5sp ZS 172FFM-3A that I got on my early 2022 Templar X.

[JerryHawk250]

My vote is the KPX but I might be bias. l Own a Hawk with the CG engine and not a thing wrong with. Great little reliable engine but not really designed for high speeds. The KPX on the other hand will check all the boxes and the quality is way above the Hawk by a long shot. It's every bit as good as the Jap bikes.

[tknj99]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Which Zongshen 167 is that on the Titan DLX? It has an OHC and makes 16hp instead of 14hp. I thought it has the pushrod CG 223cc clone that is on the Bashan Storm and TBR7 .
The Templar and Templar M get the 5sp ZS 172FFM-3A that I got on my early 2022 Templar X.

Not sure the engine model info but yes its OHC, 5sp, non-counterbalanced. In stock engine form the Titan is slightly faster than the modified Brozz which has the CG pushrod engine and im sure significantly faster than a stock Brozz