Weight: Gross vs net vs capacity

[Fast_Freddy]

It appears that in regard to Chinese motorcycles, net weight equates to dry weight while gross weight equates to shipping weight. I hope that's correct. What about weight capacity? My Templar is rated for 441lbs capacity but while removing the stickers I found one on the swingarm that states "Max weight capacity is 176lbs for operator plus accessories".

Since I weigh 250lbs and bought based on the 441lb rating this is concerning. What do the weight capacity stickers on your Chinese bike say?

[JerryHawk250]

According to my KPX specs. It 352 lbs.

[Fast_Freddy]

Does anyone else have a weight capacity sticker on their china bike? I'm especially curious about the Templar M/X which should be rated for 440lbs of total passenger weight, per PSM specs.

[Megadan]

Net Weight is another way of saying dry weight. The weight without fluids, people, or cargo.

On all types of vehicles, be they bikes, cars, trucks, etc. Gross Weight is the weight of the vehicle at maximum capacity. My VFR1200F has a Wet curb weight of 590lbs and a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 1021lbs. This means that it has a weight capacity of 431lbs. (GVWR - wet weight).

Weight capacity is exactly what it sounds like. The amount of weight the manufacturer has rated the frame, suspension, wheels, and tires to handle in their current configuration. Many times the suspension tends to be the biggest limiting factor as they have to compromise for suspension travel sake. In some cases the tire size or wheel type will be the reason, or any other combination therein

Lifan USA Lists the net weight of the KPX250 at 333lbs. 3 gallons of gasoline and a quart of oil weighs just a hair over 20lbs (20.06lbs). 333+20 = 353. 1lb off of the number Jerry has stated a few times between different posts.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the weight capacity of the KPX250 is at least the same as a Hawk 250, and a Hawk 250 is "rated" for 330lbs. I quoted the rated part because I know they can handle more.

People are over thinking this weight thing between these two bikes. Two posts on the same subject...

If you REALLY want to know, the best thing you could do is request information from the manufacturer. Lifan USA has a website and an e-mail. You can contact them and request more information.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Net Weight is another way of saying dry weight. The weight without fluids, people, or cargo.

On all types of vehicles, be they bikes, cars, trucks, etc. Gross Weight is the weight of the vehicle at maximum capacity. My VFR1200F has a Wet curb weight of 590lbs and a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 1021lbs. This means that it has a weight capacity of 431lbs. (GVWR - wet weight).

Weight capacity is exactly what it sounds like. The amount of weight the manufacturer has rated the frame, suspension, wheels, and tires to handle in their current configuration. Many times the suspension tends to be the biggest limiting factor as they have to compromise for suspension travel sake. In some cases the tire size or wheel type will be the reason, or any other combination therein

Lifan USA Lists the net weight of the KPX250 at 333lbs. 3 gallons of gasoline and a quart of oil weighs just a hair over 20lbs (20.06lbs). 333+20 = 353. 1lb off of the number Jerry has stated a few times between different posts.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the weight capacity of the KPX250 is at least the same as a Hawk 250, and a Hawk 250 is "rated" for 330lbs. I quoted the rated part because I know they can handle more.

People are over thinking this weight thing between these two bikes. Two posts on the same subject...

If you REALLY want to know, the best thing you could do is request information from the manufacturer. Lifan USA has a website and an e-mail. You can contact them and request more information.

Somebody better tell Zuma about these rules. My Templar's weight specs are:

Capacity: 441 lbs
Net: 232 lbs
Gross: 278 lbs
Sticker on swingarm: 176 lbs rider/gear max.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Somebody better tell Zuma about these rules. My Templar's weight specs are:

Capacity: 441 lbs
Net: 232 lbs
Gross: 278 lbs
Sticker on swingarm: 176 lbs rider/gear max.

Their use of Gross weight is the same as wet weight as far as I can tell. Net being empty as I established previously, "Gross" being all fluids and equipment in a "ready to ride" case, aka wet. Seeing a 46lb weight difference, while a bit heavy for a wet weight, isn't unreasonable. They may be leaving out or including other hardware for this given model, and the net refers to the base chassis. Wiring, lights, and other equipment could fall under the idea of "ready to ride" category if the model of bike has different trim levels, and this indicates your specific trim.

GVWR, The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is the wet weight plus maximum capacity. In this instance your vehicles GVWR is 441 + 278 = 719lbs

Again, I feel you are simply over thinking this.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Their use of Gross weight is the same as wet weight as far as I can tell. Net being empty as I established previously, "Gross" being all fluids and equipment in a "ready to ride" case, aka wet. Seeing a 46lb weight difference, while a bit heavy for a wet weight, isn't unreasonable. They may be leaving out or including other hardware for this given model, and the net refers to the base chassis. Wiring, lights, and other equipment could fall under the idea of "ready to ride" category if the model of bike has different trim levels, and this indicates your specific trim.

GVWR, The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is the wet weight plus maximum capacity. In this instance your vehicles GVWR is 441 + 278 = 719lbs

Again, I feel you are simply over thinking this.

I feel that you are oversimplifying this. 1.7 gal of gas, 1.5 qts of oil and a few ounces of brake fluid don't weigh 46 lbs. Even if I removed the fluids, headlight, turn signals, all the wiring and other equipment I still couldn't get to 46 lbs. The vehicle weight capacity of 441lbs simply doesn't match with the 176 lb maximum rider weight capacity.

I suspect a possible typo at PSM. Why would the smaller framed, single-rider Templar have the same weight capacity as the heavier framed, two passenger Templar M/X? The numbers still don't add up but that's not unexpected from a Chinese manufacturer.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

I feel that you are oversimplifying this. 1.7 gal of gas, 1.5 qts of oil and a few ounces of brake fluid don't weigh 46 lbs. Even if I removed the fluids, headlight, turn signals, all the wiring and other equipment I still couldn't get to 46 lbs. The vehicle weight capacity of 441lbs simply doesn't match with the 176 lb maximum rider weight capacity.

You missed or ignored a key component of what I said.

"They may be leaving out or including other hardware for this given model, and the net refers to the base chassis. Wiring, lights, and other equipment could fall under the idea of "ready to ride" category if the model of bike has different trim levels, and this indicates your specific trim."

That means not just gas and oil.

You also seemed to miss or ignore, previous to that last bit, where I said, "Seeing a 46lb weight difference, while a bit heavy for a wet weight, isn't unreasonable."

I will simply repeat myself one more time, and then I am done with this mess.

You are over thinking this.

They state capacity at 441lbs. That is not an unrealistic number for a motorcycle.

The 176lb capacity you seem to be hung up on IS unrealistic.

I am now finished replying to this thread. Figure it out from here if my answer is, for whatever reason, unsatisfactory to you.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by Megadan

You missed or ignored a key component of what I said.

"They may be leaving out or including other hardware for this given model, and the net refers to the base chassis. Wiring, lights, and other equipment could fall under the idea of "ready to ride" category if the model of bike has different trim levels, and this indicates your specific trim."

That means not just gas and oil.

You also seemed to miss or ignore, previous to that last bit, where I said, "Seeing a 46lb weight difference, while a bit heavy for a wet weight, isn't unreasonable."

I will simply repeat myself one more time, and then I am done with this mess.

You are over thinking this.

They state capacity at 441lbs. That is not an unrealistic number for a motorcycle.

The 176lb capacity you seem to be hung up on IS unrealistic.

I am now finished replying to this thread. Figure it out from here if my answer is, for whatever reason, unsatisfactory to you.

Suit yourself. I myself prefer to discover the truth even if it proves me wrong. Frankly I find your conclusions and supporting arguments entirely unconvincing but thank you for your time nonetheless.

[KenTaoyan]

potato.... tomato.... don't take a china bike over any jumps.......

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by KenTaoyan

potato.... tomato.... don't take a china bike over any jumps.......

Nothing inaccurate about what was said here lol.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Suit yourself. I myself prefer to discover the truth even if it proves me wrong. Frankly I find your conclusions and supporting arguments entirely unconvincing but thank you for your time nonetheless.

You find them.unconvincing based on your feelings. My "conclusions and arguments" are based largely on experience and facts, supported by third party and manufacturer information.

My data > your "feelings"

Also, if you know so much, why make a post about your ignorance? "I don't know anything so please help me." Then reject fairly sound information. Give me a break.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by Megadan

You find them.unconvincing based on your feelings. My "conclusions and arguments" are based largely on experience and facts, supported by third party and manufacturer information.

My data > your "feelings"

Also, if you know so much, why make a post about your ignorance? "I don't know anything so please help me." Then reject fairly sound information. Give me a break.

Okay, okay! No need to get so young alpha male with severe Dunning-Kruger syndrome on me. I'll accept your "data" as fact and completely disregard the stupid weight capacity warning label affixed to my bike by the manufacturer and use your weight capacity figure instead.

After all, they only differ by 265 lbs. What could go wrong? Thanks Dan! You're the best!

[AJ22_ChinaRider]

I have a simple theory based on nothing but speculation... what if the label was simply meant to say 176 kgs instead of lbs?
176 kgs * 2.2 = Approx 388 lbs.
and in reverse, 441lbs / 2.2 = 200 kgs.....