Atv's and kids

[AZ200cc]

We have had yet another kid killed on an ATV in Arizona, Now the state is planning to get strict on the use of them by younger kids, My question is...What do You feel is the source problem. Is it the size of the ATV? is it the lack of proper skills? Is it the fact that they ride doubles and the smaller child takes the blunt of the injury? I bought my daughter a nice stable ATV, Hell I have a hard time getting it to stand on it's edge, A very nice Snell approved helmet, And I ride on the back teaching her how to do things the right way, At a speed I feel she can control. But is that enough?

I rather feel that it is all of the above, as far as the deaths. Parents feel it holds itself up so the kids are safer. Or They consider the younger one safer with the older child, Or they feel they are safe with the child on the ATV with them. But I kinda feel that they are not. Most adults will go faster than the child can survive if they wreck. I understand most of it is stupidity, One of the deaths was because there were three people on a speeding atv, Two children one mother. She lost control, Who knew right?

But on the others I feel that kids need basic skills taught to them before they ever go solo. and they should never be allowed to go nuts until they are schooled in the Correct and safe way to use a large heavy machine. Most parents will allow a child to ride a large ATV but would laugh if You asked them if they would let that same child drive a small car.

I guess I need opinions, I am not an ATV guy but I bought my daughter one, I feel I am teaching her right...But now I wonder. Opinions are very very welcome.
And also in the last death, She was wearing a helmet, Very rare it seems....It simply landed on her and crushed her .

[daboostcreep]

I think its mainly an issue of the size of the child and the age.

The size of the child will dictate to a certain extent how much abuse the body can take. Don't get me wrong...freak accidents happen. Also, in the case of a roll over, the ability to get the vehicle off them is essential.

The age of a child is very important in my opinion also, because depending on mental maturity they can do some risk assessment. Knowing whats likely to get you hurt and avoiding doing it is #1. Once again accidents do happen. There is also an age at which many kids, (and adults sometimes forever) think they are invincible. You simply can't help that problem, but sometimes knowing that people local have died from similar stuff helps add some risk assessing power to the psyche.

Reading the first sentence of your thread seriously struck me. Its hard to explain what I feel when I hear about kids dying. I have a 17 month old that I love more than anything, and I know I would go insane if anything happened. I really love all things fast and fun, but I'm very scared to get hurt myself and not be there for her and scared of her doing something and getting hurt or worse. PROOF OF RISK ASSESSMENT RIGHT HERE. Damn this is a crappy topic, but very necessary for us.

[AZ200cc]

Originally Posted by daboostcreep

I think its mainly an issue of the size of the child and the age.

The size of the child will dictate to a certain extent how much abuse the body can take. Don't get me wrong...freak accidents happen. Also, in the case of a roll over, the ability to get the vehicle off them is essential.

The age of a child is very important in my opinion also, because depending on mental maturity they can do some risk assessment. Knowing whats likely to get you hurt and avoiding doing it is #1. Once again accidents do happen. There is also an age at which many kids, (and adults sometimes forever) think they are invincible. You simply can't help that problem, but sometimes knowing that people local have died from similar stuff helps add some risk assessing power to the psyche.

Reading the first sentence of your thread seriously struck me. Its hard to explain what I feel when I hear about kids dying. I have a 17 month old that I love more than anything, and I know I would go insane if anything happened. I really love all things fast and fun, but I'm very scared to get hurt myself and not be there for her and scared of her doing something and getting hurt or worse. PROOF OF RISK ASSESSMENT RIGHT HERE. Damn this is a crappy topic, but very necessary for us.

A lot of what You said struck me also, My daughter is also my life. With out her I am nothing. So that is why I want to make sure I teach her well, On a machine I have never owned before. I bought a smaller CC dirtbike so that I cannot do anything OVERLY STUPID and kill myself.As far as she goes I felt at eight years old and being an above average child "not bragging" She would be ready, I also felt I was smart enough to teach her properly...But I just wanted to feel like I was doing it the right way. And if I was right in my opinions...I guess. And yes this topic does suck, I hated posting it, I have ridden bikes since I was 12 or so....No helmet no gear no training. My ol man put me on it taught me the clutch and let me be. A differant time a differant day....Perhaps I am just over thinking this entire thing. But I guess it does need to be out there.

[katoranger]

Improper size of ATV and lack of training. I have seen alot of kids riding adult atvs that could not put there feet on the pegs. Alot of them not wearing any gear also.

Allen

[suprf1y]

Which is a result of the real problem.
The parents.
You can't prevent 100% of the accidents, but if your kids are riding without apropriate gear, or riding an ATV thats too big for them, you are ultimately to blame.

[KentuckyDonkey]

Just like with adults, the risks a person is willing to take determines a lot. When it comes to kids -who may be inexperienced with the laws of physics and the consequences of their actions, there exists a greater potential for injury.

Time and chance enter into the mix, too.

Sadly, I think from the over-use of protective gear; over-emphasis on training; legislation, etc. a lot of kids today are made to feel invincible- which ultimately leads to a false sense of security, and thus danger. And, I think too, because these kids are existing in a world of "safety" everywhere, that it likely makes them more prone to want to experience danger and seek out thrills.

I know if I had grown up in these days of wearing helmets to ride a bicycle; and car seats, and being buckled in everywhere, I likely would have sought out the thrills, rather than being the careful person that I am (and was, even as a child). I believe that if children are never exposed to any possible danger, they will also grow up not knowing how to deal with danger or how to avoid i.

Most reasonable parents will make sure their kids are reasonably safe in whatever endeavor they participate in- and I think that is the key- the parents- as they are the ones that know their child, and know his/her level of experience; likeliehood to take risks, etc. As we are burdened with more and more laws that seek to replace the judgement of parents, I think we will see even more accidents, as people tend to delegate their responsibilities to merely conforming to the law or to some standards set by someone else, rather than exercise their own jusgement and control. (i.e. "My kid is wearing a helmet and all the required gear, therefore he will be safe...I needn't worry")

Everything we do in life carries certain risks- some more than others- but we shouldn't let hearing of accidents ruin our enjoyment of things. We often don't get the full story in the media; and almost always, there's more to the story- a lapse of judgement, or intoxication or other factors.

We can't let that ruin our activities (or our kid's). We know that if we practise due dilligence, that we can minimize the risks to ourselves and families- and ultimately, that is what keeps us safe.

Sadly, these situations are often used as springboards to enact more laws, which penalize us all; and which foster the mentality that "If I just do all the right things [i.e. conform to the laws] my child will be safe". And that mentality always leads to more people abandonning diligence and reasonable behavior.

[TeamCheap]

I think its all a bit more simple.
I think there are just much more opportunities for kids to climb on one of those and ride it around.

When I was a kid there were lots of mini bikes and stuff but not nearly as many as there are today.
Today kids have so many more options and the atv's and such are much more affordable for the parents than I think they were when I was a kid.

When I was a kid my friend and I would ride for hours upon hours, day after day all by ourselves at the grass "airstrip" near our homes.
He had a suzuki and I had a honda 50 and we rode them into the ground .
Yes we got lucky because at any time either one of us could have been seriously hurt or even killed out there.
But we were truly into it and didnt look over at whoever was there watching us and smile and laugh/giggle at them we were out to ride.
Some kids get on these things and try to put on a show and really dont pay attention to what they are doing.

Or maybe because we grew up watching Evel Knievel jump/crash and were impressed but also aware of the potential harm.Watching him smack the ground made me think a bit.

Maybe some of these kids just shouldnt be on an atv as they just dont really understand what it is and how to handle it this of course is the parents call and really needs to be looked at to see if the child is mature enough, capable enough to handle it.


Even my wife freaked me out on her quad when she put it in reverse and started backing down a decent sized sand hill because I doubt she knows what engine braking is and what it can do to her quad on a hill.I later explained that I always want most of the braking on the high side of a hill because the low side could cause it to flip over on her.

[AZ200cc]

*I think its all a bit more simple.
I think there are just much more opportunities for kids to climb on one of those and ride it around.*

I agree team cheap, The more kids on then the odds of something bad happeing are higher. I also feel with the information super highway today we just hear a lot more of it.



**Which is a result of the real problem.
The parents.
You can't prevent 100% of the accidents, but if your kids are riding without apropriate gear, or riding an ATV thats too big for them, you are ultimately to blame.**

Agree suprfly , Nobody is ever truly safe...EVER. And by making every bad choice parents are truly adding a ton of fuel to the fire.



**Improper size of ATV and lack of training. I have seen alot of kids riding adult atvs that could not put there feet on the pegs. Alot of them not wearing any gear also.**

Allen

Dang right kato, I've seen it also and I shake my head.....Why would anyone even consider that a safe situation...I understand letting kids be kids and not being so overprotective that they are smothered...But why put them in that position to fail and probably die.


**Most reasonable parents will make sure their kids are reasonably safe in whatever endeavor they participate in- and I think that is the key- the parents- as they are the ones that know their child, and know his/her level of experience; likeliehood to take risks, etc. As we are burdened with more and more laws that seek to replace the judgement of parents, I think we will see even more accidents, as people tend to delegate their responsibilities to merely conforming to the law or to some standards set by someone else, rather than exercise their own jusgement and control. (i.e. "My kid is wearing a helmet and all the required gear, therefore he will be safe...I needn't worry")

Everything we do in life carries certain risks- some more than others- but we shouldn't let hearing of accidents ruin our enjoyment of things. We often don't get the full story in the media; and almost always, there's more to the story- a lapse of judgement, or intoxication or other factors.

We can't let that ruin our activities (or our kid's). We know that if we practise due dilligence, that we can minimize the risks to ourselves and families- and ultimately, that is what keeps us safe.

Sadly, these situations are often used as springboards to enact more laws, which penalize us all; and which foster the mentality that "If I just do all the right things [i.e. conform to the laws] my child will be safe". And that mentality always leads to more people abandonning diligence and reasonable behavior.**




This made a ton of sense to me Kdonkey, I never wore a helmet, never wore gear, And am alive today. I rode slow at first because I was worried about hurting myself, I paced myself and after a while got good enough to blast through the gears and do pretty good....Today told me everything I need to know about my kid. I have avoided teaching her to ride a bicycle becasue I did not want her to get hurt. I was the most overprotective parent I knew for a while." met one that made me REALLY think " SO today I decided it was bike day.

I took my munchkin to a large parking lot, And showed her some basics and pushed her for a few rounds on the grass to get her used to it. And after that she was on her own. And she did it! no problems no worries no blood.

I realized that a child who has the right attitude and has a good mind can do these things and be ok. They must also have a parent who can be the same way. She is on a bike her size, I told her what she should do and what can happen. I gave her all the knowledge I felt she could handle and let her be. Same as my ol man did for me on My dirtbike. And it worked...Perhaps it is all simply smart parenting and good choices of equipment....Actually I am pretty sure that is axactly what it is.


BUt I am still hoping for more opinions, I really feel this topic should be hashed to death so anyone reading it will think twice before doing anything stupid and maybe killing a young child.

[KentuckyDonkey]

Originally Posted by AZ200cc

This made a ton of sense to me Kdonkey, I never wore a helmet, never wore gear, And am alive today. I rode slow at first because I was worried about hurting myself, I paced myself and after a while got good enough to blast through the gears and do pretty good....Today told me everything I need to know about my kid. I have avoided teaching her to ride a bicycle becasue I did not want her to get hurt. I was the most overprotective parent I knew for a while." met one that made me REALLY think " SO today I decided it was bike day.

So true!

I must've put thousands of miles on my bicycle as a kid- and I thank God that I was not forced to wear a helmet. Even though I have bad eyes, and rode on streets with a good ammount of NY. traffic (we did not live on a residential street) I never had a problem. My mother was always very protective and cautious....but it was just a given that a boy should have a bike, and luckily, no one back then would dream of making a kid wear a helmet!

We all have to touch the hot stove and get burnt once, before we learn to be careful around stoves. We all have to skid our bikes on the wet leaves before we learn to be careful when there's something between our tires and the road; We all have to start to lose traction in our first car, going around a curve too fast, before we truly understand the dangers of that.

That is how we learn. We can be told and warned...but sometimes we just have to experience (or come close to experiencing) things before we truly understand the laws of physics and how they apply to us. (and that they do indeed apply to us).

I think in some cases, kids may be learning to run before they can walk- i.e. they are given powerful motorized vehicles before they are even proficient on a bicycle- and that may be part of the problem.

In other cases, I think some kids are just risk-takers/thrill seekers- I had a friend like that as a child- he was always wrecking his bike, because he was willing to do wild things, and knew of the possible consequences and didn't care. (He'd often avoid those consequences- as kids seem to have more lives than cats- but that just increases their bravado and makes them more willing to take risk- and when their luck runs out, the consequences are more dire.)

I, on the other hand, was veryu conservative and careful- not just for personal safety, but because we were poor, and I knew if I wrecked my bike, it would be a long time before it would get fixed or replaced. My friend on the other hand, had an incentive to wreck his, as it would guarantee getting a new one ASAP.

But all in all, I'd say that since there are hundreds of thousands of kids riding ATVs these days, and many of them racing or stunting, the number of tragedies we hear of are proportionally few. I think the average child is more likely to be injured or killed as a passenger in a car; or crossing the street, or riding a bicycle, etc.

Statistics may show every little bruise and bump as an "injury"- but I do believe that if we compare the number of kids riding vs. the number who are seriously injured or killed, that ATV riding is a safe endeavor.

[phil]

i think everyone has all ready said all the point i could make thinking of this post today one of my customers who works in a hospital was asking about a atv and i asked him what injuries he has seen involving atvs that didnt involve more than one rider, the no-helmet rider or a drunk the answer "a little road rash" but he had seen a lot of serious stuff involving the rest

[AZ200cc]

Originally Posted by phil

i think everyone has all ready said all the point i could make thinking of this post today one of my customers who works in a hospital was asking about a atv and i asked him what injuries he has seen involving atvs that didnt involve more than one rider, the no-helmet rider or a drunk the answer "a little road rash" but he had seen a lot of serious stuff involving the rest

We must not have, Nobody brought up drunken idiots yet....SO You added to the convo :wink: A drunk parent will be more willing to allow a child to do something stupid, People are more willing to take chances involving themselves and more willing to let the kid take chances while enjoying too many beverages. :roll: So now anyone reading this will think twice about that I hope...Thanks Phil

[KentuckyDonkey]

Heh- I'm reminded of a customer I had back in NY- a guy who had twin 5 or 6 year-old twin boys. These kids were menaces! They'd climb up on the roof of daddy's van; climb out the second story window of their house and just get into everything- jumping off of everything, and just generally being maniacal. You can be sure, that if they were given ATVs, they'd soon end up seriously hurting themselves.

And I doubt the father had enough sense to not give them ATVs!

But you know someone like AZ- his daughter will be A-OK, and it sounds like she has a daddy who can maintain a nice balance between safety and fun.

[AZ200cc]

Originally Posted by KentuckyDonkey

Heh- I'm reminded of a customer I had back in NY- a guy who had twin 5 or 6 year-old twin boys. These kids were menaces! They'd climb up on the roof of daddy's van; climb out the second story window of their house and just get into everything- jumping off of everything, and just generally being maniacal. You can be sure, that if they were given ATVs, they'd soon end up seriously hurting themselves.

And I doubt the father had enough sense to not give them ATVs!

But you know someone like AZ- his daughter will be A-OK, and it sounds like she has a daddy who can maintain a nice balance between safety and fun.

HA HA thanks for that, You are alright man....But everybody who posted shows how smart most are, And how the problems are with the small minortity of people. Thanks guys. :wink:

[KentuckyDonkey]

Originally Posted by AZ200cc

...the problems are with the small minortity of people

Ya know, I think that's true of just about every sphere of human endeavor. (Unless we're talking about politicians, or they about us).

[AZ200cc]

Originally Posted by KentuckyDonkey

Ya know, I think that's true of just about every sphere of human endeavor. (Unless we're talking about politicians, or they about us).

I can prove it LOL