Starter Problems

stixx3969 · 08-09-2006, 08:47 PM

My starter started to work intermittenly then quit altogether today. I hav'nt had a chance to look in to it, but I suspect my battery isn't maintaining a good charge. Anyone else experienced this?

culcune · 08-09-2006, 09:41 PM

I had the same issue. On very hot days, I kick-started the bike, rode it, and experienced dying engines at red lights and stop lights. I would have to push the bike to the side of the road, kick, and kick, and finally get it to start. (The other problem was adjusting the cable to give it a better idle).

I then charged the battery up, and it was like new again. I rode it about 10 miles away, and engine died. I kept pushing the starter button, and it never came to life. In the process, I drained the battery again. This time, the problem was a bad spark plug (the stock one that came with the bike). Easy enough fix. Charged battery again, and it has been starting like new since.

I used my dad's charger the first time, and my friend's charger the second time, but I have bought a charger that you connect the terminals to the battery permanently, and just plug it in the wall and connect the terminals to the wall plug when the bike needs charging. I can't vouche for it, yet, and in actuality, hope I don't need it anytime soon!

stixx3969 · 08-09-2006, 09:50 PM

Where did you get your current charger that stays hooked up? Mine runs just fine and will kick right over and the lights are good and bright. When I pushed the starter button I get nothing. Intially I tightened up the battery lead going to starter and that worked. Then all the sudden I got nothing. I need to check the lead again or hook my charger up and see if it cranks. Fortunately one or two kicks and she's going. The first day I changed out my factory plug with a new NGK and keep a couple fresh ones in the toolbox. I'll keep you posted.

culcune · 08-09-2006, 10:53 PM

I got in touch with Bruce Matty at Endless Journey Cycles somewhere in Ohio. He has a link on the LF200GY Group to his shop. I mail ordered it through him.

stixx3969 · 08-09-2006, 11:30 PM

Is it called "Battery Doc" or "Battery Tender"

tzrider · 08-10-2006, 09:50 AM

If you're riding the bike daily or every several days and the battery is going flat, you've probably got a charging system problem. Put a volt meter on the battery, should read somewhere around 12.5V with full charge. When the engine running, it sould read over 13V and when you rev the motor, should jump up around 13.5 volts or so. So long as you have more voltage than with the motor down and it raises a bit when you blip the throttle, it's charging. If the voltage is the same no matter engine condition, you have a problem. Could be the voltage regulator/rectifier or the stator. The stator can be tested for contiunity between the coils, but the reg/rec can only be replaced, should be fairly cheap for these bikes. You can sometimes test the diodes in the rectifier curcuit, but lacking a manual, I'm not sure what these bike have for such and what wires to test. The diodes in the rectifier circuit should allow continuity in one direction and infinite resistance the other way. They work as little electrical check valves and turn your AC current off the stator into DC current. They go out and it ain't charging.

You can also sometimes test the stator output by disconnecting it and testing the coils individually for output. Set your volt meter on AC.

ACD · 08-10-2006, 12:24 PM

I agree if bike is dying after having to kick start the charging sytem is not even keeping up with ignition duties. This batery tender was mentioned on the Scooter forum I frequent.
(You can purchase a "Battery Tender" like charger for small batteries at WalMart. Made by Blank-n-Decker and sells here for less than $18. It is a "Float-type" charger, meaning that it will cycle to sense the level of charge in the battery and shut off when the battery is fully charged. The nice thing with the B&D unit is that it comes with three different pig-tails. Alligator clips, 12V lighter plug, and flat eyes to connect to the battery. Has a slide switch with positions for "1 Amp/OFF/2 Amp"). Hope you sort it out. But sounds as though battery may not be the only problem. Never know though I've had batteries that made me think it wasn't charging and a new Yuasa fixed it right up.

Aaron

Beerslayer · 08-11-2006, 02:24 AM

The battery on my Lifan is pretty weak. I have two other China bikes here with pretty good batteries. The thing always starts but not by that much. Since it doesn't drain down all the way, I think the battery is junk and will have to be replaced when the weather gets cold.

frostbite · 08-11-2006, 06:41 AM

Quote:

I think the battery is junk and will have to be replaced when the weather gets cold.

I'm curious about cold weather battery performance to. I 'plan' on riding to work well into October/November. So far battery problems have been non-existent but we'll see.

dlunt · 08-11-2006, 07:25 AM

I haven't had any issues with the Lifan battery either. I charged up before ever using it and it has been great. Well...except for the time the kill switch was flipped and about drained it with the electric starter. :(
But it charged back up on it's own and has been fine since.
I have the pigtails installed on the battery all ready for the cold months ahead.

tzrider · 08-11-2006, 12:52 PM

I put a battery bought from Diamo in one bike. It came in the crate pretty used up. :roll: Another battery was covered by warranty because it came cracked by a fork lift's fork, damage to the crate's metal frame below the battery, so I know it was a 6 buck an hour fork lift jockey that did it. These batteries are sealed, no maintenance, and you can't beat the price, around 30 bucks. You can get a battery that ALMOST fits at walmart. Can't quite get the battery box closed on it and have to ty wrap it to keep it closed. Did that for a guy, too, that didn't wanna wait on a battery order. However, it's not a no maintenance. If you drop the bike in the dirt, you can spill electrolite out of that type of battery, why the dirt bikes have sealed batteries. I think that battery was about $50, too, more expensive than the battery in my GoldWing. :roll:

Get the measurements off the battery and you could probably match it up at JC Whitney with something. That's what I think I might do next time I need one. Mine is strong at the moment. Ride the bike, don't let it sit, and the battery will last a lot longer.

Heck, I might eventually wire a battery eliminator in the thing if I can find another one. I understand it's just a capacitor. It runs the bike off the stator without damaging anything electrical. I had one on a XL600R for five years and never had a problem with it. Of course, if I did that, the electric leg would no longer work.

dlunt · 08-11-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzrider

Of course, if I did that, the electric leg would no longer work.

You lost me on that one. (I might just be dumb

)
What do you mean by electric leg? Electric starter?

Here is a site that sells them:
http://bat-pac.com/index.htm
$49.95

That is a pretty cool product but
I am too lazy. I have only kick started mine 2X.
I especially need electric start for that occasional kill at a stop sign. :oops:
I even like the electric start in the dirt. I always seem to kill it in an ackward position where kicking is out of the question.

stixx3969 · 08-11-2006, 01:35 PM

When my starter first quit the power connection was loose. I tightened it up and it worked fine for a while. My next thing to check is the switch. When I push the switch I get nothing, not a click or anything at all. I hooked my charger up to the battery last night, hit the starter swith and got nothing so I don't think it's and issue of power. I think I'm looking for a bad connection.
Does anyone know, on the Roketa at least:

1.) Does the starter have a separate ground lead or does it ground via the housing?
2.) Is the fuse in the system for just for the starter?

Thanx in advance.

RPM · 08-11-2006, 02:27 PM

Does everything else work properly when you kick start it? Is the fuse under the seat blown? That is the main fuse and must be good for the starter to work. Could be a short in the wiring somewhere if it keeps blowing. I have had a new unit do this before and traced the problem to a bare connector under the seat that needed to be cut off as it was protruding through the wrapping and grounding on the frame.
Could also be the kill switch.

stixx3969 · 08-11-2006, 03:06 PM

I do have a 9v fuse coming right off the battery. Everything workd fine , lights, signals and horn. Just no starter. Should I be looking for another fuse?

08-09-2006, 08:47 PM	#1
stixx3969 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 146	Starter Problems My starter started to work intermittenly then quit altogether today. I hav'nt had a chance to look in to it, but I suspect my battery isn't maintaining a good charge. Anyone else experienced this?
	0

08-09-2006, 09:41 PM	#2
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	I had the same issue. On very hot days, I kick-started the bike, rode it, and experienced dying engines at red lights and stop lights. I would have to push the bike to the side of the road, kick, and kick, and finally get it to start. (The other problem was adjusting the cable to give it a better idle). I then charged the battery up, and it was like new again. I rode it about 10 miles away, and engine died. I kept pushing the starter button, and it never came to life. In the process, I drained the battery again. This time, the problem was a bad spark plug (the stock one that came with the bike). Easy enough fix. Charged battery again, and it has been starting like new since. I used my dad's charger the first time, and my friend's charger the second time, but I have bought a charger that you connect the terminals to the battery permanently, and just plug it in the wall and connect the terminals to the wall plug when the bike needs charging. I can't vouche for it, yet, and in actuality, hope I don't need it anytime soon! __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	0

08-09-2006, 10:53 PM	#4
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	I got in touch with Bruce Matty at Endless Journey Cycles somewhere in Ohio. He has a link on the LF200GY Group to his shop. I mail ordered it through him. __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	0

08-11-2006, 07:25 AM	#10
dlunt Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camby, Indiana Posts: 494	I haven't had any issues with the Lifan battery either. I charged up before ever using it and it has been great. Well...except for the time the kill switch was flipped and about drained it with the electric starter. :( But it charged back up on it's own and has been fine since. I have the pigtails installed on the battery all ready for the cold months ahead. __________________ 2006 Flywing(Jianshe)100 2002 Suzuki DR650
	0

08-09-2006, 09:50 PM	#3
stixx3969 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 146	Where did you get your current charger that stays hooked up? Mine runs just fine and will kick right over and the lights are good and bright. When I pushed the starter button I get nothing. Intially I tightened up the battery lead going to starter and that worked. Then all the sudden I got nothing. I need to check the lead again or hook my charger up and see if it cranks. Fortunately one or two kicks and she's going. The first day I changed out my factory plug with a new NGK and keep a couple fresh ones in the toolbox. I'll keep you posted.
	0

08-09-2006, 11:30 PM	#5
stixx3969 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 146	Is it called "Battery Doc" or "Battery Tender"
	0

08-10-2006, 09:50 AM	#6
tzrider Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas by gawd! Posts: 407	If you're riding the bike daily or every several days and the battery is going flat, you've probably got a charging system problem. Put a volt meter on the battery, should read somewhere around 12.5V with full charge. When the engine running, it sould read over 13V and when you rev the motor, should jump up around 13.5 volts or so. So long as you have more voltage than with the motor down and it raises a bit when you blip the throttle, it's charging. If the voltage is the same no matter engine condition, you have a problem. Could be the voltage regulator/rectifier or the stator. The stator can be tested for contiunity between the coils, but the reg/rec can only be replaced, should be fairly cheap for these bikes. You can sometimes test the diodes in the rectifier curcuit, but lacking a manual, I'm not sure what these bike have for such and what wires to test. The diodes in the rectifier circuit should allow continuity in one direction and infinite resistance the other way. They work as little electrical check valves and turn your AC current off the stator into DC current. They go out and it ain't charging. You can also sometimes test the stator output by disconnecting it and testing the coils individually for output. Set your volt meter on AC.
	0

08-10-2006, 12:24 PM	#7
ACD Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rockland, Maine Posts: 297	I agree if bike is dying after having to kick start the charging sytem is not even keeping up with ignition duties. This batery tender was mentioned on the Scooter forum I frequent. (You can purchase a "Battery Tender" like charger for small batteries at WalMart. Made by Blank-n-Decker and sells here for less than $18. It is a "Float-type" charger, meaning that it will cycle to sense the level of charge in the battery and shut off when the battery is fully charged. The nice thing with the B&D unit is that it comes with three different pig-tails. Alligator clips, 12V lighter plug, and flat eyes to connect to the battery. Has a slide switch with positions for "1 Amp/OFF/2 Amp"). Hope you sort it out. But sounds as though battery may not be the only problem. Never know though I've had batteries that made me think it wasn't charging and a new Yuasa fixed it right up. Aaron
	0

08-11-2006, 02:24 AM	#8
Beerslayer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 188	The battery on my Lifan is pretty weak. I have two other China bikes here with pretty good batteries. The thing always starts but not by that much. Since it doesn't drain down all the way, I think the battery is junk and will have to be replaced when the weather gets cold.
	0

08-11-2006, 12:52 PM	#11
tzrider Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas by gawd! Posts: 407	I put a battery bought from Diamo in one bike. It came in the crate pretty used up. :roll: Another battery was covered by warranty because it came cracked by a fork lift's fork, damage to the crate's metal frame below the battery, so I know it was a 6 buck an hour fork lift jockey that did it. These batteries are sealed, no maintenance, and you can't beat the price, around 30 bucks. You can get a battery that ALMOST fits at walmart. Can't quite get the battery box closed on it and have to ty wrap it to keep it closed. Did that for a guy, too, that didn't wanna wait on a battery order. However, it's not a no maintenance. If you drop the bike in the dirt, you can spill electrolite out of that type of battery, why the dirt bikes have sealed batteries. I think that battery was about $50, too, more expensive than the battery in my GoldWing. :roll: Get the measurements off the battery and you could probably match it up at JC Whitney with something. That's what I think I might do next time I need one. Mine is strong at the moment. Ride the bike, don't let it sit, and the battery will last a lot longer. Heck, I might eventually wire a battery eliminator in the thing if I can find another one. I understand it's just a capacitor. It runs the bike off the stator without damaging anything electrical. I had one on a XL600R for five years and never had a problem with it. Of course, if I did that, the electric leg would no longer work.
	0

08-11-2006, 01:35 PM	#13
stixx3969 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 146	When my starter first quit the power connection was loose. I tightened it up and it worked fine for a while. My next thing to check is the switch. When I push the switch I get nothing, not a click or anything at all. I hooked my charger up to the battery last night, hit the starter swith and got nothing so I don't think it's and issue of power. I think I'm looking for a bad connection. Does anyone know, on the Roketa at least: 1.) Does the starter have a separate ground lead or does it ground via the housing? 2.) Is the fuse in the system for just for the starter? Thanx in advance.
	0

08-11-2006, 02:27 PM	#14
RPM Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Grenada, MS Posts: 259	Does everything else work properly when you kick start it? Is the fuse under the seat blown? That is the main fuse and must be good for the starter to work. Could be a short in the wiring somewhere if it keeps blowing. I have had a new unit do this before and traced the problem to a bare connector under the seat that needed to be cut off as it was protruding through the wrapping and grounding on the frame. Could also be the kill switch.
	0

08-11-2006, 03:06 PM	#15
stixx3969 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 146	I do have a 9v fuse coming right off the battery. Everything workd fine , lights, signals and horn. Just no starter. Should I be looking for another fuse?
	0