Zongshen RX3: Lithium and Other Aftermarket Batteries

[keithmaine]

Thanks Spud

[SpudRider]

Since LiFePO4 batteries are relatively expensive compared to lead/acid batteries, people usually buy the smallest LiFePO4 battery which will start their motorcycles. This works fine, as long as the bike employs old technology, with no parasitic electrical drains, and few electrical accessories. However, a smaller LiFePO4 battery doesn't have enough storage capacity to prevent deeper discharging, which will shorten its life.

Therefore, it is probably best for a Zongshen RX3 owner to stick with a larger, heavier AGM battery, unless he is willing to spend more money for the largest LiFePO4 battery which will fit into the battery tray. You need storage capacity in amp hours to sustain large demands on a motorcycle battery. LiFePO4 battery manufacturers inflate the 'equivalent amp hour ratings' of their batteries to increase sales. The smaller LiFePO4 batteries crank very hard, but they don't have the storage capacity of lead/acid batteries.

Maintaining a reliable battery is especially important for a motorcycle with EFI, which also lacks a backup kick starter. I own two LiFePO4 batteries, and I like them a lot. However, since I plan to run a lot of electrical accessories with my Zongshen RX3, I am sticking with an AGM, lead/acid battery for my Zong.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by keithmaine

Thanks Spud

You're welcome. As always, thanks for starting such an interesting discussion.

[keithmaine]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

Since LiFePO4 batteries are relatively expensive compared to lead/acid batteries, people usually buy the smallest LiFePO4 battery which will start their motorcycles. This works fine, as long as the bike employs old technology, with no parasitic electrical drains, and few electrical accessories. However, a smaller LiFePO4 battery doesn't have enough storage capacity to prevent deeper discharging, which will shorten its life.

Therefore, it is probably best for a Zongshen RX3 owner to stick with a larger, heavier AGM battery, unless he is willing to spend more money for the largest LiFePO4 battery which will fit into the battery tray. You need storage capacity in amp hours to sustain large demands on a motorcycle battery. LiFePO4 battery manufacturers inflate the 'equivalent amp hour ratings' of their batteries to increase sales. The smaller LiFePO4 batteries crank very hard, but they don't have the storage capacity of lead/acid batteries.

Maintaining a reliable battery is especially important for a motorcycle with EFI, which also lacks a backup kick starter. I own two LiFePO4 batteries, and I like them a lot. However, since I plan to run a lot of electrical accessories with my Zongshen RX3, I am sticking with an AGM, lead/acid battery for my Zong.

Like I said earlier it is great to hear from people who have been there before, helps stop others from making the same mistakes. Much

[jbfla]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

........ Once again, everything you ever wanted to know about lithium batteries is probably included in the 99-page, technical thread which is located at the following link.

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...ifepo4.757934/

I've read the thread, and even understood a sentence or two...

The main thing I took away from it was the different charging rates for the lithium and lead-acid.

In the past years I let the Shorai sit, removed from the bike, for the winter...except for the time or two I forgot to remove it.

This year I purchased one of these lithium specific chargers, and put it on the TW battery.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...2&sr=8-2-fkmr0

It claims to be able to restore weakened Lithium batteries.

In the Spring, I'll see if the Shorai makes it another season.

jb

[detours]

Shorai batteries are supposedly able to be maintained by a regular Battery Tender, but I was riding mine so much through the fall I didn't need it. But I recently ordered a Battery Tender Jr made for Lithium Iron batteries. It has 5 step charging and ought to do nicely.

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender..._sim_sbs_263_3

[jbfla]

Originally Posted by detours

Shorai batteries are supposedly able to be maintained by a regular Battery Tender, ....

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender..._sim_sbs_263_3

Glad you bought the one for lithium batteries.

The thread on Adv also mentions the need for "balancing" the individual cells in the LiFePo4 batteries.

The port at the top of the Shorai, when used with the Shorai charger, is supposed to do this.

This seems like a good thing to do, but I don't have the technical knowledge to know if the balancing is necessary in real world use.

jb

[SpudRider]

It's good to balance charge the 4 cells during the off season, but the LiFePO4 batteries tend to self balance during the riding season. If the batteries didn't tend to self balance, they wouldn't last very long with a conventional charging system in a car, or motorcycle.

[keithmaine]

Here's another thought just to throw out there. With our 300 watt charging system and led lights if we were to keep our farkle battery drain to something the charging system can keep up with. I would think the lithium batteries would do as well as on the older non farkled bikes. Of course we have to be careful that nothing is drawing power when the bike is not running. Or am I off base with with this assumption. I went back and reread the adv post and did not find an answer to this question. I have to admit that at the time I was well under the influence of alcohol.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by keithmaine

Here's another thought just to throw out there. With our 300 watt charging system and led lights if we were to keep our farkle battery drain to something the charging system can keep up with. I would think the lithium batteries would do as well as on the older non farkled bikes...

That's possible. The main problem is the small storage capacity of LiFePO4 batteries. The lithium batteries are very light, and don't need much storage capacity to start an engine, because they crank so hard. Therefore, if the battery drains a lot from powering heated gear and accessories during a short winter ride, the bike can be parked overnight with the battery severely drained. After a cold start the next morning, a robust charging system can pour current into the battery too fast, and damage the battery in the process. This will greatly shorten the life of the lithium battery. However, this scenario is much less likely to occur in warmer climates, where heated gear is not used very much, and warm engines crank more easily. Also, this scenario becomes less problematic if the bike is consistently taken on longer rides.

Originally Posted by keithmaine

...Of course we have to be careful that nothing is drawing power when the bike is not running. Or am I off base with with this assumption...

That's a logical assumption. We can measure the parasitic drain with a digital multimeter. However, the possibility still remains that people will install a battery which is too small, since the lithium batteries crank so hard, and manufacturers label the lithium batteries with deceptive 'equivalent amp hour' ratings.

The best tests are empirical. Time will tell us best whether or not the lithium batteries will endure well when installed in the Zongshen RX3. However, I suspect Dan is correct, and his experience will other bikes will be repeated with the Zongshen RX3.

Originally Posted by keithmaine

...I went back and reread the adv post and did not find an answer to this question...

I am impressed. That thread is 99 pages long, and it is not light reading. It contains a lot of technical information.

Originally Posted by keithmaine

... I have to admit that at the time I was well under the influence of alcohol.

[keithmaine]

Thanks again Spud for the informative reply

[keithmaine]

I have had no issue yet with the factory battery, but I wish to prepare for the worst.

[detours]

I'm not sure I mentioned it in this thread, but I left my lights on in the garage and killed my Shorai LFX18A1-BS12 (270 CCA) battery a couple of months ago. I tried to revive it with a special lithium ion charger, but no luck. Then, I put the stock battery back in, but it died in the cold weather.

So I went ahead and ordered a new Shorai. The LFX19A4-BS12 (285 CCA) was on sale for $159, so I jumped on it. It's shorter than stock, but nothing the included spacers can't fix. And the width and depth are perfect in the RX3 battery box. It starts nice and strong too.

It has a real nice feature where the battery terminals are directly tapped for bolts ... so there's no tiny nut to lose or struggle to line up.

[Adjuster]

Your lithium battery can probably be saved. Hook it up to your running car battery with a set of jumper cables. It needs a little kick in the pants to get a dead lithium able to recover and take a charge. Smart chargers won't do it because they read the battery as dead/bad and won't give it that immediate boost of power to wake it up. Once the battery has a bit of a charge from your car then you can hook it up to the smart charger to top it off.


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[detours]

Originally Posted by Adjuster

Your lithium battery can probably be saved. Hook it up to your running car battery with a set of jumper cables. It needs a little kick in the pants to get a dead lithium able to recover and take a charge. Smart chargers won't do it because they read the battery as dead/bad and won't give it that immediate boost of power to wake it up. Once the battery has a bit of a charge from your car then you can hook it up to the smart charger to top it off.
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I wish I could try that, but I already recycled it