Mystery oil leak

bobrx3 · 04-20-2016, 01:08 AM

When I come back from a ride and park the bike in the garage, the next day (or two) I find a few drops of oil on the ground under the bike.

"Simple" you might say, just look at what's above the oil drip and you'll see where it's coming from...

Well, the bike is on the side stand and in fact the oil is running down the crash bar on that side of the bike. So where is it dripping onto the crash bar?

Well, as far as I can see it's coming down the square front section of the frame. In fact it seems to be coming down the inside of that hollow tube I've marked in the attached photo. It drips off the lower front corner (circled in red). It seems like it's coming down the inside of the square tube. It looks like oil (not water or coolant), but I can't find any source! It's very hard to see much up around the top of that frame member. I don't know if it's open at the top or not. I think it must be coming from the inside as I can't see of feel any oil on the outside!

I'm still trying to track down the source. Sound simple but it isn't easy to see what's going on. It's only a few drops on the ground overnight. I haven't yet quite correlated it with riding or how long it goes on for after a ride. So far it seems to happen maybe 12-48 hours after a ride but I need to get more data.

I'd welcome any ideas. Next step will be to take it for a ride, then park it and pull the tank off so I can see what's going on better.

The aluminum bar between the frame and the crash bars is just there to give a better fit.

Here's a better look at the location on the frame (red circle).

AdventureDad · 04-20-2016, 08:54 AM

Just like lighting can strike miles away from a cloud, an oil leak can wind up very far from its source. Start looking on a CLEAN bike. As these bikes are new, it wont be like finding an oil leak on a 1981 Plymouth K car. Use a flashlight, even in the day these can be helpful and look up (start from the top down on your engine) from the end point of the drip. As you ride, obviously, the oil will travel towards the rear, but on a slow leak, they can wind up anywhere, as oil is heavy and clings to everything in its path. I'd check areas that are bolted and unbolted for service and/or testing first. I.E., valve cover gaskets, oil strainers, etc. If you "think" you found it, put a dash of baby powder on it, start it, let it get warm and recheck.
Its happening when the oil is hot, just after a ride, its not happening when the bike is parked a day later, its just taking a while to hit the floor.
Keep in mind, my advice is a generalization. I don't have mine yet, but engines are engines and I've done this on many.

Azhule · 04-20-2016, 09:37 AM

I will throw in my 2 cents, although, I doubt it that this exact situation will happen to anyone but me

Could it be from "Grease Separation"?

I had a random "Oil Leak" from the front of my Kawasaki a little while back... come to find out it was from the Grease I used to lube the 'steering' bearings and any bolts in the area... I guess I got a bad batch of "Lucas Red N Tacky Grease" because all the Oils separated from the Grease due to the 'Hot' outside temps (was only '90 degrees F'...) and started dripping down onto my bike and the ground... it left behind hard crusty red chunks where the grease was packed... I cleaned then re-greased everything with MAG 1 brand "Marine Grade/Water Proof Grease" and I have yet to have any "mystery oil drippings" by the front of my frame/engine/exhaust

Again, this might be another one of those "Just my luck" situations and will probably never happen to anyone else in the world

pete · 04-20-2016, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azhule

I will throw in my 2 cents, although, I doubt it that this exact situation will happen to anyone but me

Could it be from "Grease Separation"?

I had a random "Oil Leak" from the front of my Kawasaki a little while back... come to find out it was from the Grease I used to lube the 'steering' bearings and any bolts in the area... I guess I got a bad batch of "Lucas Red N Tacky Grease" because all the Oils separated from the Grease due to the 'Hot' outside temps (was only '90 degrees F'...) and started dripping down onto my bike and the ground... it left behind hard crusty red chunks where the grease was packed... I cleaned then re-greased everything with MAG 1 brand "Marine Grade/Water Proof Grease" and I have yet to have any "mystery oil drippings" by the front of my frame/engine/exhaust

Again, this might be another one of those "Just my luck" situations and will probably never happen to anyone else in the world

that was my thought...
engine heat melting the grease in the bottom steering head bearing...
may have a low melting point grease in it...

bobrx3 · 04-21-2016, 12:55 AM

Well, I've reconsidered my initial assumption that the slippery oil like fluid that was dropping was engine oil. I now think it was probably coolant! The coolant in there is pretty concentrated and feels a lot closer to a light oil than it does to water. There was never enough of it in bulk to see the color or to get a really good handle on the viscosity.

I pulled the side panel of the fairing on the radiator side and indeed, the coolant level was a bit low. However there was no sign of a leak anywhere. I topped it up and took the bike out for a 20 mile run, then parked it as usual. If there was a coolant leak I expected it to be worse, or at least no different - but after sitting in the garage for 8 hours now, there's no sign of a leak and no drips on the floor.

I still don't quite know what's going on. Certainly a coolant leak would explain the slightly low coolant level but I don't understand how topping it up could stop the leakage, unless the radiator cap wasn't sealing properly.

So I was fooled. I thought the fluid was engine oil, even though it did seem a bit light (like oil mixed with a little gas). In fact it was probably coolant. Not sure what the factory coolant dilution is. Maybe it's not diluted much at all which accounts for it being oily and fairly viscous. If it's 90% glycol, that's how it would be.

If I don't see any drips by tomorrow, I guess it's "fixed"!

detours · 04-21-2016, 02:36 AM

Check the clamps on all your coolant lines. I had a slow drip from one of mine last fall. It's also possible that the expansion bottle is too full and slightly overflowing as the engine warms up.

SpudRider · 04-21-2016, 06:45 AM

Thanks for posting the update, Bob.

3banger · 04-21-2016, 08:56 AM

Not that I would recommend this or ever admit to doing it

. But old school shade tree mechanics would just give a mystery fluid a little taste to tell the diffrence between oil and coolant.

keithmaine · 04-21-2016, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3banger

Not that I would recommend this or ever admit to doing it

. But old school shade tree mechanics would just give a mystery fluid a little taste to tell the diffrence between oil and coolant.

The old (looks like, feels like, smells like, taste like) Test

3banger · 04-21-2016, 10:53 AM

"Sure glade I didn't step in it"

BlackBike · 04-21-2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3banger

Not that I would recommend this or ever admit to doing it

. But old school shade tree mechanics would just give a mystery fluid a little taste to tell the diffrence between oil and coolant.

slip under white sheet of paper also to help. sounds like he has it figured out.

2LZ · 04-21-2016, 04:38 PM

Are you sure it wasn't something liquid slung up from something you may have run over? I came around a blind corner on my old Harley chopper and nailed what was left of a opossum. Being a blind corner, he'd been put through the grinder pretty badly. I found opossum bits in odd places for the next two washes.
Not saying you hit something like that but all it takes is some idiot to toss something out his window and you can run over the puddle.

BlackBike · 04-21-2016, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2LZ

Are you sure it wasn't something liquid slung up from something you may have run over? I came around a blind corner on my old Harley chopper and nailed what was left of a opossum. Being a blind corner, he'd been put through the grinder pretty badly. I found opossum bits in odd places for the next two washes.
Not saying you hit something like that but all it takes is some idiot to toss something out his window and you can run over the puddle.

bobrx3 · 04-22-2016, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detours

Check the clamps on all your coolant lines. I had a slow drip from one of mine last fall. It's also possible that the expansion bottle is too full and slightly overflowing as the engine warms up.

Yup, that was it. The slow drip went onto a part of the frame that slopes down to the front. The trip ran down that bar, crossed over to the vertical cross section front frame member, then transferred itself to the crash bar, ran down the underside of the crash bar and eventually dripped off the end of the crash bar onto the ground!

It took maybe a day or so to make the journey, so things looked fine until the next day when the drip finally appeared.

I tightened up the hose clamp on the outlet of the thermostat housing which is where I think the leak was coming from. It wasn't real looks, but I got a turn or so on the adjustment. Tricky to reach, but a 1/4" socket on a long extension could just be snaked in from the left side.

A routine check on all the hoses wouldn't be a bad idea, but some of them are hard to get to without pulling the fairings and maybe even the tank.

Now to take it out for another ride to see if it's fixed!

Jay In Milpitas · 04-22-2016, 05:19 PM

By the way Bob, I appreciate and respect the work you've shared on your site blog thingy.

04-20-2016, 01:08 AM	#1
bobrx3 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bar Harbor, Maine Posts: 20	Mystery oil leak When I come back from a ride and park the bike in the garage, the next day (or two) I find a few drops of oil on the ground under the bike. "Simple" you might say, just look at what's above the oil drip and you'll see where it's coming from... Well, the bike is on the side stand and in fact the oil is running down the crash bar on that side of the bike. So where is it dripping onto the crash bar? Well, as far as I can see it's coming down the square front section of the frame. In fact it seems to be coming down the inside of that hollow tube I've marked in the attached photo. It drips off the lower front corner (circled in red). It seems like it's coming down the inside of the square tube. It looks like oil (not water or coolant), but I can't find any source! It's very hard to see much up around the top of that frame member. I don't know if it's open at the top or not. I think it must be coming from the inside as I can't see of feel any oil on the outside! I'm still trying to track down the source. Sound simple but it isn't easy to see what's going on. It's only a few drops on the ground overnight. I haven't yet quite correlated it with riding or how long it goes on for after a ride. So far it seems to happen maybe 12-48 hours after a ride but I need to get more data. I'd welcome any ideas. Next step will be to take it for a ride, then park it and pull the tank off so I can see what's going on better. The aluminum bar between the frame and the crash bars is just there to give a better fit. Here's a better look at the location on the frame (red circle). __________________ www.rx3adventure.com 2015 Cyclone RX3 (Orange)
	0

04-20-2016, 09:37 AM	#3
Azhule Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: CO Posts: 1,525	I will throw in my 2 cents, although, I doubt it that this exact situation will happen to anyone but me Could it be from "Grease Separation"? I had a random "Oil Leak" from the front of my Kawasaki a little while back... come to find out it was from the Grease I used to lube the 'steering' bearings and any bolts in the area... I guess I got a bad batch of "Lucas Red N Tacky Grease" because all the Oils separated from the Grease due to the 'Hot' outside temps (was only '90 degrees F'...) and started dripping down onto my bike and the ground... it left behind hard crusty red chunks where the grease was packed... I cleaned then re-greased everything with MAG 1 brand "Marine Grade/Water Proof Grease" and I have yet to have any "mystery oil drippings" by the front of my frame/engine/exhaust Again, this might be another one of those "Just my luck" situations and will probably never happen to anyone else in the world __________________ "Think as you like... but this self proclaimed Professor is always right" - Buckshot "You never know what someone is hiding beneath their smile..." - NinjaTom - R.I.P.
	2

04-21-2016, 12:55 AM	#5
bobrx3 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bar Harbor, Maine Posts: 20	Well, I've reconsidered my initial assumption that the slippery oil like fluid that was dropping was engine oil. I now think it was probably coolant! The coolant in there is pretty concentrated and feels a lot closer to a light oil than it does to water. There was never enough of it in bulk to see the color or to get a really good handle on the viscosity. I pulled the side panel of the fairing on the radiator side and indeed, the coolant level was a bit low. However there was no sign of a leak anywhere. I topped it up and took the bike out for a 20 mile run, then parked it as usual. If there was a coolant leak I expected it to be worse, or at least no different - but after sitting in the garage for 8 hours now, there's no sign of a leak and no drips on the floor. I still don't quite know what's going on. Certainly a coolant leak would explain the slightly low coolant level but I don't understand how topping it up could stop the leakage, unless the radiator cap wasn't sealing properly. So I was fooled. I thought the fluid was engine oil, even though it did seem a bit light (like oil mixed with a little gas). In fact it was probably coolant. Not sure what the factory coolant dilution is. Maybe it's not diluted much at all which accounts for it being oily and fairly viscous. If it's 90% glycol, that's how it would be. If I don't see any drips by tomorrow, I guess it's "fixed"! __________________ www.rx3adventure.com 2015 Cyclone RX3 (Orange)
	2

04-21-2016, 02:36 AM	#6
detours Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Arvada, CO Posts: 1,004	Check the clamps on all your coolant lines. I had a slow drip from one of mine last fall. It's also possible that the expansion bottle is too full and slightly overflowing as the engine warms up. __________________ Red 5 standing by! 2015 CSC red RX3 with 19" front wheel, Shinko 804/805, skid plate, tall seat, 13T/45T sprockets, progressive shock, Winyoochanok windshield, GENSSI LED headlight, SW-Motech tankbag, Shorai Lithium battery 2014 Ural Patrol
	2

04-21-2016, 06:45 AM	#7
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	Thanks for posting the update, Bob. __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
	0

04-20-2016, 08:54 AM	#2
AdventureDad Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: South Mississippi Posts: 253	Just like lighting can strike miles away from a cloud, an oil leak can wind up very far from its source. Start looking on a CLEAN bike. As these bikes are new, it wont be like finding an oil leak on a 1981 Plymouth K car. Use a flashlight, even in the day these can be helpful and look up (start from the top down on your engine) from the end point of the drip. As you ride, obviously, the oil will travel towards the rear, but on a slow leak, they can wind up anywhere, as oil is heavy and clings to everything in its path. I'd check areas that are bolted and unbolted for service and/or testing first. I.E., valve cover gaskets, oil strainers, etc. If you "think" you found it, put a dash of baby powder on it, start it, let it get warm and recheck. Its happening when the oil is hot, just after a ride, its not happening when the bike is parked a day later, its just taking a while to hit the floor. Keep in mind, my advice is a generalization. I don't have mine yet, but engines are engines and I've done this on many.
	1

04-21-2016, 08:56 AM	#8
3banger Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 159	Not that I would recommend this or ever admit to doing it. But old school shade tree mechanics would just give a mystery fluid a little taste to tell the diffrence between oil and coolant.
	2

04-21-2016, 10:53 AM	#10
3banger Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 159	"Sure glade I didn't step in it"
	2

04-21-2016, 04:38 PM	#12
2LZ Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Volcano, Ca Posts: 7,112	Are you sure it wasn't something liquid slung up from something you may have run over? I came around a blind corner on my old Harley chopper and nailed what was left of a opossum. Being a blind corner, he'd been put through the grinder pretty badly. I found opossum bits in odd places for the next two washes. Not saying you hit something like that but all it takes is some idiot to toss something out his window and you can run over the puddle. __________________ "Light a fire for a man, and you heat him for a day. Light a man on fire, and you heat him for the rest of his life." 2007 Suzuki DRZ400S (SM convert) 2009 Q Link XP 200 1967 BSA B25 250cc Starfire 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 2023 Royal Enfield Scram 411 1948 Royal Enfield Model G 350
	1

04-22-2016, 05:19 PM	#15
Jay In Milpitas Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Milpitas, CA. USA Posts: 775	Thanks BobRX3 By the way Bob, I appreciate and respect the work you've shared on your site blog thingy.
	2