Couple of CG200 transmission questions...

[franque]

I believe that I have a 'Hummer' dirtbike that has a Zongshen CG200 motor (I believe the standard 63.5 motor, not the 67mm CG200-B, even though with the name 'ZS167FML' emblazoned on the cases, it might imply otherwise). As I outlined in my earlier introduction, it has a bit of a funky shift pattern, neutral on the top, and 1-5 all down from there.

Is it possible to get a conventional shift drum and star gear to change this to a 1-down 4-up pattern (I don't see why not, but wondering if anyone has experience, otherwise I'm willing to be a guinea pig)? Has anyone done this? Also, if someone could give me a link to a conventional shift drum, that'd be great, I've searched a bit and not been able to find anything.

Also, inline with the previous question, knowing for sure that I have a CG copy (rather than the Yamaha copy), are both CG bottom ends, besides crank stroke, basically the same for both the 167FML and 163FML, assuming that they're both non-counterbalanced? I'm just curious in case I have to swap out a transmission to make this work.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by franque

I believe that I have a 'Hummer' dirtbike that has a Zongshen CG200 motor (I believe the standard 63.5 motor, not the 67mm CG200-B, even though with the name 'ZS167FML' emblazoned on the cases, it might imply otherwise). As I outlined in my earlier introduction, it has a bit of a funky shift pattern, neutral on the top, and 1-5 all down from there.

Is it possible to get a conventional shift drum and star gear to change this to a 1-down 4-up pattern (I don't see why not, but wondering if anyone has experience, otherwise I'm willing to be a guinea pig)? Has anyone done this? Also, if someone could give me a link to a conventional shift drum, that'd be great, I've searched a bit and not been able to find anything.

Also, inline with the previous question, knowing for sure that I have a CG copy (rather than the Yamaha copy), are both CG bottom ends, besides crank stroke, basically the same for both the 167FML and 163FML, assuming that they're both non-counterbalanced? I'm just curious in case I have to swap out a transmission to make this work.

No, the gears don't care what method or order the gears are shifted in. I think all you need is the correct shifting drum for 1-n-2-3-4-5 instead of n-1-2-3-4-5. I believe that the nuetral detent is on the drum as well....ARH
P.S. I would think that you have to get the corect drum to match your engine. Meaning it has to be made by whoever made your engine...ARH

[humanbeing]

Mod kit https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=13001734537 that had 2 typical shift drum types.
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Typical rotary shift drum: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=41629005803
Typical 4 speed all down shilft drum: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=19016048999
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From Taiwan http://forum.jorsindo.com/forum.php?...le&tid=2106070

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

No, the gears don't care what method or order the gears are shifted in. I think all you need is the correct shifting drum for 1-n-2-3-4-5 instead of n-1-2-3-4-5. I believe that the nuetral detent is on the drum as well....ARH
P.S. I would think that you have to get the corect drum to match your engine. Meaning it has to be made by whoever made your engine...ARH

Looking at the pictures provided so kindly by humanbeing, I see I was wrong. The nuetral detent is on the star wheel, not in the shifting drum...ARH

[Weldangrind]

If you have access to an XR200 six speed assembly, compare it with the CG transmission. I suspect it will drop in.

[franque]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Looking at the pictures provided so kindly by humanbeing, I see I was wrong. The nuetral detent is on the star wheel, not in the shifting drum...ARH

You're partially right... The drum moves the gears so that they aren't engaged and it can be in neutral. The star gear provides the detents that keep the drum from freely rotating, and indexes the drum into the proper position. That's part of the reason why I was asking about getting both.

If you look at a conventional shift star gear, there is usually a half detent between 1st and 2nd gear for neutral. For the XR200 transmission, you'd need the star gear for it, too, because there are a total of 7 detents, counting neutral, as opposed to 6 on a 5-speed.

I'd also suppose that it is possible that you couldn't properly get into any gear without having the right number of detents, as the one with less detents would be rotating more, relatively speaking, per detents (think 1/6 vs. 1/7 of 360° of potential rotation, even though the star never fully rotates, unless it has a rotary shift pattern).

[ripcuda]

My enduro also has the same odd shift pattern. Neutral at top... 1-5 all down.

I too have looked into possibly changing this to the traditional shift pattern. HB linked you to the pieces you would need. Shift drum (w/ correct sized ends) and star detent wheel. If you search for "shift drum" on ebay... plus other keywords like (lifan, roketa, chinese, flyway, etc.)... you can find some cheap parts to do it. Just be sure you get the correct drums... looks like they come in different shaft sizes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-150...53.m1438.l2649

But for me, the idea of have to disassemble the engine and split the cases... on a perfectly working engine... just to fix this... isn't worth the effort. If the engine needed rebuilt... then sure. I actually find the tap down upshift to be pretty fast (GP shifting style?) and fun. But if I'm not thinking about my next shift... I have slipped back into the old habit of normal shifting up for up... which drops a gear. haha.

Cheers!

[franque]

ripcuda, the problem for me is not the challenge of adapting to the shift pattern (although overrevving it is a concern), but that I'm going to use the bike to teach people to ride, and I'd rather teach them the conventional shift pattern rather than force them adapt later to the 'right' pattern.

Currently, I'm a mechanic (by training) with no outlet to fix/stove complex problems, this keeps me from getting bored.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by ripcuda

My enduro also has the same odd shift pattern. Neutral at top... 1-5 all down.

I too have looked into possibly changing this to the traditional shift pattern. HB linked you to the pieces you would need. Shift drum (w/ correct sized ends) and star detent wheel. If you search for "shift drum" on ebay... plus other keywords like (lifan, roketa, chinese, flyway, etc.)... you can find some cheap parts to do it. Just be sure you get the correct drums... looks like they come in different shaft sizes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-150...53.m1438.l2649

But for me, the idea of have to disassemble the engine and split the cases... on a perfectly working engine... just to fix this... isn't worth the effort. If the engine needed rebuilt... then sure. I actually find the tap down upshift to be pretty fast (GP shifting style?) and fun. But if I'm not thinking about my next shift... I have slipped back into the old habit of normal shifting up for up... which drops a gear. haha.

Cheers!

For me, it was hard learning the down for low, up, up, up on the European (and Triumph) shift patterns. All of the bikes I grew up on were up for low, then down, down, down. These were all four speeds. This pattern is ideal for road racing, or dirt tracks because you were down to it while accelerating, and you sat up while decelerating and braking. Sitting up, it is much easier to downshift with the shift set up that way. Some Italian roadracer bikes used to have a toe and heel shift lever to get around this problem...ARH